You are correct and I stand corrected! My choice of words was poor. I should have said something to the effect that "I hope Hodoboc would reply" to my post.
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Which denomination do you consider the second best after your own?
- Thread starter Lucian Hodoboc
- Start date
You are correct and I stand corrected! My choice of words was poor. I should have said something to the effect that "I hope Hodoboc would reply" to my post.
EcdcsAs a Southern Baptist I can affirm Al Mohler is watching. He is always watching, and he makes a list and checks it twice.
Lucian Hodoboc
New Member
I'm Eastern-Orthodox, and I don't think I'm familiar with your view of baptismal regeneration. Also, you can call me by my first name, which is Lucian. Heh!
Baptismal Regeneration is an error which teaches that water baptism removes "Original Sin".I'm Eastern-Orthodox, and I don't think I'm familiar with your view of baptismal regeneration. Also, you can call me by my first name, which is Lucian. Heh!
If this is not your belief - Good!
There is no power in water to cleanse from sin - only the blood Christ has that power.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
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Lucian, I would be interested to know your belief related to water baptism. When should it be applied and what is its purpose? Best regards.I'm Eastern-Orthodox, and I don't think I'm familiar with your view of baptismal regeneration. Also, you can call me by my first name, which is Lucian. Heh!
Lucian Hodoboc
New Member
My guess is that it's symbolic of our death to sin, and it should be applied as early as infancy, but I have no certitude because I have not received private revelation from God in regards to this topic and I don't consider that I have found a clear explanation in the Bible.
Steve Allen
Member
Lucian: I am Eastern Orthodox by conversion -- I was raised Baptist.
It is not difficult to find the understanding of the (Orthodox) Church on the matter of Baptism.
If anything just read the texts of the rite (including the Excorcism before and Chrismation after). And if you're still not sure, ask your priest or bishop.
The Scriptures, if taken at face value, do not make baptism symbolic, but real, and all the mystical/inner work is done by the Holy Spirit. So statements like "there is no power in water" are completely irrelevant or even flat out wrong, because the Power is the power of the Holy Spirit who descends into the water when the Church, being the Body of Christ and acting in concert with her Head (i.e. Christ Himself, who sends the Holy Spirit), asks Him to do so.
So yes, water per se, all by itself, only has power to cleanse the flesh, and St. Peter tells us directly that that is not what it is about baptism that now saves us. But the Holy Spirit, as in the beginning, moves upon the waters, and accomplishes a new creation. Likewise, as when the waters came in and washed away the wicked in Noah's day, but the wind (aka spirit) blew on the waters and the dove brought the peaceful olive branch showing the new creation had thus been accomplished, so baptism also now saves us by the washing away of sins and the making of a new creation, sealed with the Spirit of peace by Chrismation with the oil of that same olive.
Don't forget: the Scriptures are not just the New Testament!
Steve Allen
Member
(continued)
Then, the wind blew over the waters of the Red Sea and accomplished that miracle also with the sign of the cross, destroying the pursuing tyrant and saving Israel, bringing him forth as a new creation out of Egypt, baptizing him unto Moses and receiving thereafter from him at Sinai the Law written on tablets of stone.
Now the Cross is shown over the waters, the Spirit descends, and a New Israelite passes through. The pursuing tyrant Satan and all his works are destroyed in the water. The new creature comes forth not unto Sinai, to recieve that Law of Moses -- for he has not been baptized unto him now, but unto Jesus, to whom he now comes in the Heavenly and New Jerusalem (that is, the Church), to recieve the Spiritual and Royal Law of Love, written not on tablets of stone, but on his heart -- for his heart is no longer stone, but flesh -- sealed not merely with the finger of God, as though it were a writing of judgement on a wall, but with His Living Spirit, sent by Him from the Father to dwell in this new heart.
Theophany is this weekend on the New Calendar. The texts for that cycle are also well worth meditating on in conjunction with this.
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Then, the wind blew over the waters of the Red Sea and accomplished that miracle also with the sign of the cross, destroying the pursuing tyrant and saving Israel, bringing him forth as a new creation out of Egypt, baptizing him unto Moses and receiving thereafter from him at Sinai the Law written on tablets of stone.
Now the Cross is shown over the waters, the Spirit descends, and a New Israelite passes through. The pursuing tyrant Satan and all his works are destroyed in the water. The new creature comes forth not unto Sinai, to recieve that Law of Moses -- for he has not been baptized unto him now, but unto Jesus, to whom he now comes in the Heavenly and New Jerusalem (that is, the Church), to recieve the Spiritual and Royal Law of Love, written not on tablets of stone, but on his heart -- for his heart is no longer stone, but flesh -- sealed not merely with the finger of God, as though it were a writing of judgement on a wall, but with His Living Spirit, sent by Him from the Father to dwell in this new heart.
Theophany is this weekend on the New Calendar. The texts for that cycle are also well worth meditating on in conjunction with this.
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Yes of course.
What OT scriptures exactly are you appealing to brother and how do we apply them to salvation by grace through faith?
OK I see I made my inquiry while you were answering it.
Steve Allen
Member
Haha yeah I'm answering on my phone, so I can't type all that fast, plus Tapatalk has this wierd behavior where I can't type too much or it stops displaying the text. :/Yes of course.
What OT scriptures exactly are you appealing to brother and how do we apply them to salvation by grace through faith?
OK I see I made my inquiry while you were answering it.
Anyway, there is plenty more Scripture to pull. See the Baptismal Service of the Eastern Orthodox Church for reference (there are 15 readings, IIRC). (I'll see if I can't dig you up a link.)
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Steve Allen
Member
As for salvation being by grace through faith -- the Eastern Orthodox Church does not dispute the letter to the Ephesians.
The question is whether there are physical actions with which our Lord has ordained that He, with His Faithful Body, should accomplish the movement and application of said grace as a norm, or whether He spurns such things.
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The question is whether there are physical actions with which our Lord has ordained that He, with His Faithful Body, should accomplish the movement and application of said grace as a norm, or whether He spurns such things.
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Steve Allen
Member
Oh, and also 'twould be an excellent use of time, IMHO, to examine the nature and scope of the faith through which grace comes to save us. I would contend that individual/personal faith is important (viz. "if you continue in"), but not strictly necessary at the first, considering how a) that faith is explicitly noted as not being "of yourself", but rather being "the gift of God, not of works," and b) faith can be increased and appropriated/laid hold upon, and c) it is specifically the faith of Christ that accomplishes anything anyway ("for without me ye can do nothing"). And Christ works in and through His Body, being the Faithful Head which cannot deny Himself even if we are faithless.
Take, for an apt comparison/example, the paralytic who was healed because the Lord saw the faith of his friends who let him down through the roof.
Take, for an apt comparison/example, the paralytic who was healed because the Lord saw the faith of his friends who let him down through the roof.
Steve Allen
Member
(NB: I started a new thread with links to the texts I dug up for you, Hank.)
Have always liked the Orthodox Presbyterian Church because of men like Boise, RC Sproul and Sinclair Ferguson.... but I don’t like the infant Baptism traditions. I would never be totally content with them.
Agreed. All three were/are excellent preachers. I had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Sproul preach twice in person before he passed. As an FYI, I don't believe any of these were members of the OPC. Ferguson is pastor of St. Peter's Free Church of Scotland and is a professor of Reformed Seminary. Boice and Sproul were members of the PCA. The PCA and OPC are similar in doctrine, thought the OPC is a bit more conservative.
Understand your comment. Have friends in the same boat.
John Yurich
Member
Next to the Baptist Church and Catholic Church the various branches of the Lutheran Church(except for the apostate Evangelical Lutheran Church In America) is the best church.The thread title is self-explanatory: which Christian denomination do you consider to hold the most truth, second only to the one you belong to? If you weren't a (insert the label that defines you denominationally here), what do you think you'd be? You're welcomed to bring arguments to support your answer.
Lucian Hodoboc
New Member
What? Why would they excommunicate you?
it was a mutual deal - right after Vatican II.What? Why would they excommunicate you?
John Yurich
Member
That was stupid of your friend to tell his priest that he had been re Baptized in a Baptist Church. It was no business of his priest that he had been re Baptized in a Baptist Church. I was re Baptized in May 2017 at the local Baptist Church that I started attending on Sunday mornings in September 2016. I have not told my priest that I was re Baptized in the local Baptist Church because it is none of his business.
