• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Which is the Jewish Sabbath - Saturday or Lunar?

BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by BobRyan:
-----------------------------------------
So are you willing to show where your view allows Christ's statement in Mark 2:27 "to be true"??

---------------------------------------


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boanerges
Bob,

Is your smugness a by-product of your denial?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob responds --

As substantive as that reply was to my question about Mark 2:27... Do you yet have an answer for how your view allows Christ's words to be true when "HE" Said that the Sabbath was "MADE" for Mankind?

Or are you still bent on dodging the question?

In Christ,

Bob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boanerges
Bob,

It is quite obvious that you are avoiding adressing issues...
Click to expand...
"Again" you flee from the words of Christ in Mark 2:27!!???

Notice that this thread is "about the Sabbath".

Notice that HIS words in Mark 2:27 SHOW the very point you deny "that the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND".

You duck and dodge this repeated question and simply "cast about you" looking for some straw topic to avoid the words OF Christ!!

That has to be embarrassing for you - that your view requires you to suffer this time after time as it is pointed out!

Can you not even admit that you have nothing in your view to support the Words of Christ in Mark 2:27??

Can you admit confusion or that you are stuck? Must you continually duck the question entirely?

In our exchange so far - this is the ONLY question I have set out as a challenge all on its own. Your silence is deafening.

In Christ,

Bob
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Boanerges:
It is quite obvious that you are avoiding adressing issues that could compromise sound Biblical doctrine, while focusing on the Sabbath issue, which is not a salvation issue.
Click to expand...
I realize that objectivity and rational response may be leaving you at this moment. But if you would - look up at the top of this page and "See" what the title of this thread is...

Then maybe you might stop complaining that I "Stay on subject" inside the thread that is ON this subject.


Since the SDA's are vegetarians, how can they celebrate the feasts stipulated in the Hebrew Scriptures which require eating meat then?
Click to expand...
The subject of "celebrating the feasts" is an intersting topic. ARe you thinking about starting such a subject??

Why derail the focus of this thread as you continue to flee from the oft repeated question from Mark 2:27??

IN Christ,

Bob
 
B

Boanerges

New Member
Bob,

I have talked with Adventists often, and it is always Sabbath and the mark of the beast as the main topic. As soon as the hard questions are asked, the subject rapidly changes back to the Sabbath issue, which appears to be the flagship issue. They always quote the verse about the "true" church" being the one that keeps the commandments of God, thus believing that the SDA is the only true church. The problem being, is that they have their own definition of what the commandments are.If you are going to keep quoting v 27, why not quote verse 28 as well? Then read Jeremiah 31:31.
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Boanerges:

I have talked with Adventists often, and it is always Sabbath and the mark of the beast as the main topic.
Click to expand...
#1. I did not start this topic.

#2. It is not 'evil' to "stay on topic" for each thread that is started.

#3. I have stated my willingness to address other topics on other threads.

#4. you are still ducking the Words of Christ in Mark 2:27 "as if" that is the right response for you.

As soon as the hard questions are asked, the subject rapidly changes back to the Sabbath
Click to expand...
Revisionist history and villanizing from the void of what did not actually happen here.

#1. I never left the topic of this thread so that I might then "change back" to the topic of this thread. Only you do that!

#2. You have been "casting about you" for whatever you could find as you came up "Short" on the ONE AND ONLY question I have asked you point blank -- which is the ONE question on Mark 2.

#3. I on the other hand have answered NUMEROUS points that you have tossed out.

You are the only one dodging the pointed and inconvenient facts of scripture on this subject that do not please you.

I have only asked about one. You are simply failing to address that one point in your every post.

There is no change so far.

Still waiting for you to own up to the standard of that ONE question answered from the Words of Christ Himself!

In Christ,

Bob
 
B

Boanerges

New Member
Bob,

If you review my earlier posts, you will see that I came on this topic to speak against the lunar Sabbath. Somehow, I got sucked into your Sabbath discussion, which as I keep stating, celebrate what ever day you want. It doesn't go against scripture.
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Boanerges:
celebrate what ever day you want. It doesn't go against scripture.
Click to expand...
I get that part.

My question is how your view allows for Christ's words in Mark 2:27 to be "True" that in the making of mankind and the making of Christ the Creator's Sabbath it is "The Sabbath that is MADE for mankind and not mankind MADE for the Sabbath".

Since Christ is observing a fact of history -- AT what point prior to Christ saying this - do you allow His words to be true?

In Christ,

Bob
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Since we can not get the two participants on this thread who are opposed to honoring Christ the Creator's Holy Day (for themselves if for no one else) to address the Words of Christ in Mark 2:27 -- I will "offer some help" by going to OTHER non-Sabbath keeping Christian scholars who HAVE brought themselves to admit to the "inconvenient facts" of Mark 2:27.

Adam Clarke
Verse 27. The Sabbath was made for man
That he might have the seventh part of his whole time to devote to the purposes of bodily rest and spiritual exercises. And in these respects it is of infinite use to mankind. Where no Sabbath is observed, there disease, poverty, and profligacy, generally prevail. Had we no Sabbath, we should soon have no religion
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002
Click to expand...
Matthew Henry
Verses 23-28 The sabbath is a sacred and Divine institution; a privilege and benefit, not a task and drudgery. God never designed it to be a burden to us, therefore we must not make it so to ourselves. The sabbath was instituted for the good of mankind, as living in society, having many wants and troubles, preparing for a state of happiness or misery. Man was not made for the sabbath, as if his keeping it could be of service to God, nor was he commanded to keep it outward observances to his real hurt. Every observance respecting it, is to be interpreted by the rule of mercy.
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryConcise/mhc-con.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002
Click to expand...
This next reference is interesting in that it admits to the “making of both” the Sabbath and Mankind at Creation week and shows the true binding nature of the Sabbath – AND it admits to its own need to switch the Sabbath from what Christ the Creator gave in Gen 2:3 – to man’s traditions regarding “weekday-one”


Albert Barnes
Verse 27. The sabbath was made for man. For his rest from toil, his rest from the cares and anxieties of the world, to give an opportunity to call off his attention from earthly concerns, and to direct it to the affairs of eternity. It was a kind provision for man that he might refresh his body by relaxing his labours; that he might have undisturbed time to seek the consolations of religion to cheer him in the anxieties and sorrows of a troubled world; and that he might render to God that homage which is most justly due to him as the Creator, Preserver, Benefactor, and Redeemer of the world. And it is easily capable of proof, that no institution has been more signally blessed to man's welfare than the Christian Sabbath. To that we owe, more than to anything else, the peace and older of a civilized community. Where there is no Sabbath, there is ignorance, vice, disorder, and crime. On that holy day, the poor, and the ignorant, as well as the learned, have undisturbed time to learn the requirements of religion, the nature of morals, the law of God, and the way of salvation. On that day, man may offer his praises to the Great Giver of all good, and in the sanctuary seek the blessing of him whose favour is life. Where that day is observed in any manner as it should be, order prevails, morals are promoted, the poor are elevated in their condition, vice flies away, and the community puts on the appearance of neatness, industry, morality, and religion. The Sabbath was, therefore, pre-eminently intended for man's welfare, and the best interests of mankind demand that it should be sacredly regarded as an appointment of merciful heaven, intended for our best good; and, where improved aright, infallibly resulting in our temporal and eternal peace.
Not man for the sabbath. Man was made first, and then the Sabbath was appointed for his welfare, Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath was not first made or contemplated, and then the man made with reference to that. Since, therefore, the Sabbath was intended for man's real good, the law respecting it must not be interpreted so as to oppose his real welfare. It must be explained in consistency with a proper attention to the duties of mercy to the poor and the sick, and to those in peril. It must be, however, in accordance with man's real good on the whole, and with the law of God. The law of God contemplate man's real good on the whole; and we have no right, under the plea that the Sabbath was made for man, to do anything contrary to what the law of God admits. It would not be for our real good, but for our real and eternal injury, to devote the Sabbath to vice, to labour, or to amusement.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002
Click to expand...
 
B

Boanerges

New Member
Bob,

I notice that you have been quoting studlight a whole lot in your discussion. It is a site run by an adventist.
 
L

Linda64

New Member
There are 17 words in Mark 2:27--It's absolutely incredible that one can get so carried away and write page after page after page of dissertation on 17 words?? You folks seem to be stuck in a groove in Mark 2:27--can you expand your beliefs a bit more and use more Scriptures?
 
L

Linda64

New Member
Originally posted by Boanerges:
Bob,

I notice that you have been quoting studlight a whole lot in your discussion. It is a site run by an adventist.
Click to expand...
I don't know about you, Boanerges, but I went on that site and there were so many pop-ups (I have a pop-up blocker that was working overtime)on that site that it was hard to read anything.
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Linda64:
[QB] There are 17 words in Mark 2:27--It's absolutely incredible that one can get so carried away and write page after page after page of dissertation on 17 words??
Click to expand...
Hey!

Finally a response to Mark 2:27 after consistently ducking the point since page one of this thread!.

Outstanding!

Christ's Words in Mark only get a "That was 17 words" response??!!!

Amazing where things go when doctrine is flawed.

So lets see - you "need" to ignore Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, Christ in Mark 2 -- my repeated inquiry into the question from "page one"...

You are right - you seem to have no limit on ways to turn a blind eye to that text no matter how much I ask you to give a response to the Words of Christ!

I stand amazed!

In Christ,

Bob
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Boanerges:
Bob,

I notice that you have been quoting studlight a whole lot in your discussion. It is a site run by an adventist.
Click to expand...
And... "the point"???

I am simply showing published commentaries of non-Sabbath keeping well-known Bible scholars (or did you think that Albert Barnes and Adam Clarke were Adventists??
laugh.gif
)

[ January 23, 2006, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Adam Clarke Commentary
Author of one of the most respected interdenominational commentaries ever written, Adam Clarke shows his Godly respect for the Bible as well as his courage to give his opinion on many difficult and controversial questions other commentaries often avoid.


Albert Barnes
Albert Barnes was born in Rome, New York on December 1, 1798. He graduated from Hamilton College in Clinton, NY, in 1820, and from Princeton Theological Seminary, in 1823.

Barnes was ordained pastor of the Presbyterian church in Morristown, NJ, in 1825. He was pastor of the First Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia, 1830-67, where he resigned and was made pastor emeritus. He was an advocate of total abstinence from alcohol, was a staunch proponent of the abolition of slavery, and worked actively to promote Sunday-school.

...

His commentary on the entire New Testament and on portions of the Old (Notes: Explanatory and Practical, 1832-72), designed originally for his congregation in Philadelphia, were well-suited for popular use and more than one million copies were sold before his death.

He died on in West Philadelphia on December 24, 1870.
Click to expand...
For those that are fearful of finding Albert Barne's commentary on any site connected with an Adventist Christian - try this one to purchase your very own copy.

http://www.swordsearcher.com/christian-authors/albert-barnes.html
 
BobRyan

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Hey look what I found from two guys that could do more than 'count words' when they read Mark 2:27!!

Finally - some "substance" guys!

Originally posted by BobRyan:


Since we can not get the two participants on this thread who are opposed to honoring Christ the Creator's Holy Day (for themselves if for no one else) to address the Words of Christ in Mark 2:27 -- I will "offer some help" by going to OTHER non-Sabbath keeping Christian scholars who HAVE brought themselves to admit to the "inconvenient facts" of Mark 2:27.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Adam Clarke
Verse 27. The Sabbath was made for man
That he might have the seventh part of his whole time to devote to the purposes of bodily rest and spiritual exercises. And in these respects it is of infinite use to mankind. Where no Sabbath is observed, there disease, poverty, and profligacy, generally prevail. Had we no Sabbath, we should soon have no religion
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002
Click to expand...
Matthew Henry
Verses 23-28 The sabbath is a sacred and Divine institution; a privilege and benefit, not a task and drudgery. God never designed it to be a burden to us, therefore we must not make it so to ourselves. The sabbath was instituted for the good of mankind, as living in society, having many wants and troubles, preparing for a state of happiness or misery. Man was not made for the sabbath, as if his keeping it could be of service to God, nor was he commanded to keep it outward observances to his real hurt. Every observance respecting it, is to be interpreted by the rule of mercy.
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryConcise/mhc-con.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002
Click to expand...
This next reference is interesting in that it admits to the “making of both” the Sabbath and Mankind at Creation week and shows the true binding nature of the Sabbath – AND it admits to its own need to switch the Sabbath from what Christ the Creator gave in Gen 2:3 – to man’s traditions regarding “weekday-one”


Albert Barnes
Verse 27. The sabbath was made for man. For his rest from toil, his rest from the cares and anxieties of the world, to give an opportunity to call off his attention from earthly concerns, and to direct it to the affairs of eternity. It was a kind provision for man that he might refresh his body by relaxing his labours; that he might have undisturbed time to seek the consolations of religion to cheer him in the anxieties and sorrows of a troubled world; and that he might render to God that homage which is most justly due to him as the Creator, Preserver, Benefactor, and Redeemer of the world. And it is easily capable of proof, that no institution has been more signally blessed to man's welfare than the Christian Sabbath. To that we owe, more than to anything else, the peace and older of a civilized community. Where there is no Sabbath, there is ignorance, vice, disorder, and crime. On that holy day, the poor, and the ignorant, as well as the learned, have undisturbed time to learn the requirements of religion, the nature of morals, the law of God, and the way of salvation. On that day, man may offer his praises to the Great Giver of all good, and in the sanctuary seek the blessing of him whose favour is life. Where that day is observed in any manner as it should be, order prevails, morals are promoted, the poor are elevated in their condition, vice flies away, and the community puts on the appearance of neatness, industry, morality, and religion. The Sabbath was, therefore, pre-eminently intended for man's welfare, and the best interests of mankind demand that it should be sacredly regarded as an appointment of merciful heaven, intended for our best good; and, where improved aright, infallibly resulting in our temporal and eternal peace.
Not man for the sabbath. Man was made first, and then the Sabbath was appointed for his welfare, Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath was not first made or contemplated, and then the man made with reference to that. Since, therefore, the Sabbath was intended for man's real good, the law respecting it must not be interpreted so as to oppose his real welfare. It must be explained in consistency with a proper attention to the duties of mercy to the poor and the sick, and to those in peril. It must be, however, in accordance with man's real good on the whole, and with the law of God. The law of God contemplate man's real good on the whole; and we have no right, under the plea that the Sabbath was made for man, to do anything contrary to what the law of God admits. It would not be for our real good, but for our real and eternal injury, to devote the Sabbath to vice, to labour, or to amusement.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002
Click to expand...
</font>[/QUOTE]
 
L

Linda64

New Member
The Believer and The Law: Is Torah Observance for Us Today?
By: Gary Hendrick



I was working at the office one day when my secretary said I had a phone call. I picked up the phone and it was Lydia (not her real name), a Christian friend who was active in the Messianic movement and helped moderate the "Messianic Believers" forum on CompuServe.

After a few moments of small talk, Lydia informed me that she had just returned from spending several weeks with an Orthodox rabbi in Israel. She said she was intrigued by his "Torah-observant", traditional Jewish lifestyle. He had convinced her that the Oral Law (Talmud) was just as binding as the Bible itself. She had decided to learn Hebrew and adopt a similar lifestyle herself.

I said, "Lydia, do you realize what you are saying? You are talking about converting to Judaism. How can you do this?" I reminded her that the Book of Hebrews in the New Testament was a warning to professing Jewish believers about the danger of returning to the old, Levitical system once they had been exposed to the glorious Gospel of Jesus the Messiah.

http://www.sdaoutreach.org/torah.cfm

Seventh Day Adventism is a cult!!

Mark 2:27 is not the only verse in the Bible!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top