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Which Old testament events are historically accurate?

Joshua Villines,
There is so much to say concerning your so called theology. It is sad to see people claim to be Christians and deny the very Scripture that, supposedly, led them to understand their need for a Savior. How are we to know which part of the Bible is true and which part is not? I believe that God wrote the Book and He has given to us exactly what He wanted us to have. If God was unable to preserve His word, then He would not be much of a God would He? I pity the poor people who look to you as a representive of Christ. You should be ashamed to call yourself a Christian.
 

David Cooke Jr

New Member
Lighten up, Terry. The plank in your own eye may be preventing you from helping Joshua remove the dust from his. I haven't met anyone yet who has walked all the way around God and taken pictures.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Terry Herrington:
David Cooke, Jr.
I hope you are a better lawyer than you are a Christian.
Wow... You're a little self-righteous to be calling yourself a believer in Christ!
 

David Cooke Jr

New Member
Originally posted by Terry Herrington:
David Cooke, Jr.
I hope you are a better lawyer than you are a Christian.
You must know me. I'm not the best Christian in the world. Like most of us I just stumble along.

Its alot easier to be a good prosecutor than it is to be a good Christian. Somebody has already come before us and shown us how to do it perfectly. But none of us has measured up. The cross is to heavy. We always want to serve other masters. And its not fun washing other people's feet.
The hardest part may be humbling ourselves to realize that we aren't perfect. "The confidence of ametuers is the envy of professionals". We act like we know so much, but like Paul we see through a glass darkly. We don't know it all. I sure don't.
Well, I'm off to prepare for next week's trial. I'll leave you "better Christians" to show us how to live.
 

UTEOTW

New Member
Originally posted by Terry Herrington:
BTW, It is impossible to be pro homosexual and be a Christian.
Where is the dividing line that determines which incorrect beliefs prohibit you from being a Christian?

I am not advocating a pro homosexual agenda but there are certainly areas where believers have a difference of conscience. Does this equate to not being a true Christian? :eek:
 
Maybe I should explain my position. I believe that a person could commit a homosexual act and be a Christian, just like David commited adultery and murder, yet belonged to God. I do, however, find it difficult to believe that a person could advocate that homosexuality is correct behavior and be a Christian. During times in my Christian life when I was doing wrong, I knew it and was ashamed. I did not want other to know. Also, a Christian living in sin will be miserable. They may claim to be happy, but they are not. God, also, will not allow them to stay there.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Terry Herrington:
Maybe I should explain my position. I believe that a person could commit a homosexual act and be a Christian, just like David commited adultery and murder, yet belonged to God. I do, however, find it difficult to believe that a person could advocate that homosexuality is correct behavior and be a Christian. During times in my Christian life when I was doing wrong, I knew it and was ashamed. I did not want other to know. Also, a Christian living in sin will be miserable. They may claim to be happy, but they are not. God, also, will not allow them to stay there.
That's quite a bit different from what you said earlier...
 
Baptist Believer
It's not really different. When I said it was impossible to be a Christian and a homosexual I meant it. To “be” a homosexual is to espouse the homosexual lifestyle as being legitimate. Abraham lied on more that one occasion, but he was not a lier. His lying was out of character with who he was. The Bible says, “And there shall in no wise enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, OR MAKETH A LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev 21:27
 

David Cooke Jr

New Member
Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
David, both of you Villines, and anyone else who denies the virgin birth - you are WRONG! I can not be more emphatic about that. On what grounds do you superimpose theology on what God said? Is it because you have a difficulty with miracles? Isn't that the simplistic naturalistic way of seeing the universe? Oh sure, IF miracles didn't happen, then Christianity doesn't exist. We could all be CBF then. :eek:


The miracle was that Emmanuel (God with us) was born of a virgin. That is what the Scripture declares. Deny that and you deny an essential doctrine of Christ. To do that is to deny Christ. John 8:24 - If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sin. A person must believe in the absolute deity of Christ. If He had a human father, he is just a supersaint, or perhaps even superman (a little more than man and a little less than God). He is certainly not worthy of worship and not qualified to be the savior of the world.

The virgin birth cannot be denied by Christians. If you deny it, you only profess Christ and have no place in His kingdom. You can scoff and mock; it matters not to me.

I don't know why I am amazed when the libs come up with their excuses for certain passages. If I had to write 4 biographies of a particular person, I might not include the same information in all 4. WOW! What a difficult concept. Does that mean that the information is questionable and that it probably didn't happen? Hey, there isn't a biography about me... maybe I'm not really here at all.

Why do all 4 gospels have to include the virgin birth to be real? How ridiculous. Next.

____

Romans 1:16
I have not denied the virgin birth-I have affirmed my belief in it. Re-read my post next time before you critisize me.
 

C.S. Murphy

New Member
Originally posted by David Cooke, Jr.:
Lighten up, Terry. The plank in your own eye may be preventing you from helping Joshua remove the dust from his. I haven't met anyone yet who has walked all the way around God and taken pictures.
First of all let me say that you are correct, no one has taken pictures but we have a more sure word, the Word of God. Why not just believe that it is true.
Secondly I too have a hard time believing that a Chritian would advocate a homosexual lifestyle in the light of the scriptures that prohibit it. O but I forgot some of you guys don't believe in the scriptures sorry.
Murphy
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Terry Herrington:
Baptist Believer
It's not really different. When I said it was impossible to be a Christian and a homosexual I meant it.
No it isn't.

What you said was, "BTW, It is impossible to be pro homosexual and be a Christian."

There's a difference between being "pro homosexual" (whatever you mean by that) and considering yourself a homosexual or participating in homosexual acts.

Don't criticize me for reading what you typed -- even if you did not intend to say what you said.

To be a homosexual is to espouse the homosexual lifestyle as being legitimate. Abraham lied on more that one occasion, but he was not a liar. His lying was out of character with who he was. The Bible says, "And there shall in no wise enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, OR MAKETH A LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." Rev 21:27
I have friends who consider themselves to be homosexual. One close friend struggles with the temptation, but (as far as I know) don't not engage in sexual activity. Besides the fact that he is a very good longstanding friend (and a brother in Christ), I try to make extra time to do things with him because he also struggles with loneliness. He needs to be accepted by a man with whom he knows that he has no chance of becoming sexually involved. I am pro-homosexual (that is, I want to affirm men and women who struggle with unrighteous attractions), but I do not condone sexual activity outside of marriage. (Frankly, I am pro-sinner, even though I don't condone sin!)

I have studied most of the pertinent works regarding homosexuality and Christian theology and I can see how some people can come to the conclusion that homosexuals should be accepted into the leadership of church life without exclusions, but I can't get past some basic aspects of theology and gender that are implicit in the scriptures and simple biology. Yet, I can understand that when some things are somewhat questionable in the Christian life, it is probably best to err on the side of grace rather than law. However, for me and my understanding of the Bible, it is more important for believers to hold the sexual standard of chastity before marriage for all believers than to make concessions for those who are weak.

Summation:

Yes, I am a friend to homosexuals and I make no bones about it. Yes, I believe the Bible and take a fairly conservative view concerning sexuality. But I also affirm homosexuals as people who are struggling with sin and unwanted attractions. I believe they should be church members and enjoy the fellowship of men and women in the church. I think the heterosexual men of the churches should go out of their way to extend hospitality and fellowship to homosexual men. I think the heterosexual women of the church should go out of their way to extend hospitality and fellowship to lesbians. But churches should not move anyone with sexual sin in their lives into leadership positions or should confirm or condone same-sex unions.

Clear enough?
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
O but I forgot some of you guys don't believe in the scriptures sorry.
This tired old slur about "not believing the Bible" is really annoying. How would you like it if they constantly accused you of being too feeble-minded to understand scripture? It's the same sort of thing.

It's just that they don't believe the same *interpretion* that you do.
 

C.S. Murphy

New Member
Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
You are just as free to argue your points as anyone else. But personal attacks only betray your desperation and lack of supporting evidence.
-------------------------------------------------
Although you have slapped at several posters on this thread I agree with you that you and others are desperate and lack supporting evidence.

I just don't get it, the Bible is all the supporting evidence you need but it is rejected.

Concerning homosexuality let's be honest, any Christian especially any Preacher that claims that this lifestyle is Biblical is not just reinterpreting scripture. They are in Error!!!

Murphy
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Although you have slapped at several posters on this thread I agree with you that you and others are desperate and lack supporting evidence.

I just don't get it, the Bible is all the supporting evidence you need but it is rejected.
When and where have I rejected the Bible?

Concerning homosexuality let's be honest, any Christian especially any Preacher that claims that this lifestyle is Biblical is not just reinterpreting scripture. They are in Error!!!
They are interpreting scripture, but they have erred because of compassion or some other consideration. I would strongly disagree with them. Where have I said anything contrary to this view?
 

David Cooke Jr

New Member
Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by David Cooke, Jr.:
Lighten up, Terry. The plank in your own eye may be preventing you from helping Joshua remove the dust from his. I haven't met anyone yet who has walked all the way around God and taken pictures.
First of all let me say that you are correct, no one has taken pictures but we have a more sure word, the Word of God. Why not just believe that it is true.
Secondly I too have a hard time believing that a Chritian would advocate a homosexual lifestyle in the light of the scriptures that prohibit it. O but I forgot some of you guys don't believe in the scriptures sorry.
Murphy
</font>[/QUOTE]Scripture is alot like testimony in a trial. There are many witnesses, with some obvious contradictions in testimony, but ultimately the testimony as a whole points to an obvious verdict.
The Bible points us to the verdict that Jesus is our risen Lord, the Christ and son of God, and that we may receive salvation in him. As Christians, it is also our guide for faith and practice. But the Bible is not infallible, only God is.
For me, this is not a simple thing of "either you believe it or you don't". Some parts of it contradict the other parts. Clearly I can't believe BOTH contradictory versions. I may have to surmise what happended, or just accept that I may never know exactly what happened in certain events. But my job isn't to know everything. Its to follow Jesus. People can make crass flippant comments about me and other moderates all they want. But this idea that we all know for sure what the truth is about every event portrayed in the Bible and every theological point is nothing but an exercise in PRIDE and VANITY.
Some of it may start off as well intentioned, but the more you study, the more your realize you don't know as much as you thought you did.
 

TomVols

New Member
Folks, there's enough self-righteous judgement flowing from BOTH sides, even the left. So let's knock this off and stick to the issues. Both sides get too personal. Thanks.

TomVols
Co-Moderator
 

C.S. Murphy

New Member
Tom thanks for your leadership. I appreciate the job you do here. Even though my views may differ from some others here I still enjoy hearing what they have to say. Actually if we all agreed on everything it would be pretty boring around here.
Murphy
 
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