Which Romney?

[Don]

Lady Eagle's post is pretty interesting, and it actually proves the political expediency charge, if, in fact, everything she has posted is authentic. I'm not sure whether that would make him an etch-a-sketch President or a weather vane President, but I sure hope it leads to his not being President. Kind of like Bush. Talked about being pro-life for the fourteen years he served in public office, yet when he left both executive positions, abortion was more legal and widespread than it was when he took office. That's what happens when your state supreme court justices and the ones you appoint to the federal Supreme Court are not pro-life.

Oh, where's the third party when you really need it?

So--as I posted to you in another thread: if the 3rd-party candidate doesn't have a chance of winning (let's face it: Obama or Romney is going to win; as you mentioned, there is no public coverage of a 3rd party candidate, and therefore the American public isn't aware that there's anyone else to vote for) ... your vote for a 3rd party candidate, or not voting at all, is going to help one of those two win.

So which would you prefer to win? Or which would you prefer to lose? And you can't say both; we might all prefer both, but what's the alternative?

 

[Zaac]

So--as I posted to you in another thread: if the 3rd-party candidate doesn't have a chance of winning (let's face it: Obama or Romney is going to win; as you mentioned, there is no public coverage of a 3rd party candidate, and therefore the American public isn't aware that there's anyone else to vote for) ... your vote for a 3rd party candidate, or not voting at all, is going to help one of those two win.

So which would you prefer to win? Or which would you prefer to lose? And you can't say both; we might all prefer both, but what's the alternative?

Why can't we keep God first and not vote for either of them? They are both anti-Christs so ultimately they are trying to enhance this world that is not my home.

I'll write someone in and let darkness vs. darkness do what it wants. But they will do it without either one getting my support. :laugh:

 

[LadyEagle]

SIDEBAR:
Well, Zaac, let's just all be good Christians and stay home and not vote and let the chips fall where they may. Is that what we should do?

I remember growing up when the "Church" was not supposed to be involved in dirty, filthy politics and as a result, because the Church was uninvolved and not being the salt and light even in the dark stage of politics, we had Prayer and Bible reading taken out of our public schools, and we had Roe v Wade, and once those footholds were gained by the Prince of Darkness, we are now in the position where we can't have a nativity scene in a public square or any mention of God or prayer at high school graduation ceremonies or prayers in the locker room before sports and almost every aspect has God or Jesus Christ taken out of our public life.....

Well, back on topic:

THIS OPINION PIECE was found on a socialist (communist) web site and mirrored on pro-abortion sites, so this should give us all a clue just HOW HOW much the left and pro-aborts HATE Mitt Romney:

So in the words of Mitt Romney's own website, he supports overturning Roe v. Wade because it would let individual states outlaw abortion. But he doesn't believe the push to outlaw abortion should end there: that's merely "the next step." And though it is true overturning Roe v. Wade would empower states to ban abortion, it would also empower the federal government to do the same.

Obviously, Mitt Romney was once pro-choice. But he's now solidly pro-life, and with the exceptions noted above believes abortion should be against the law. It's true that he says he doesn't believe it would be possible to immediately pass a federal ban on abortion, but that's merely a political assessment on his part. If it were possible to do so, he has made it clear that he would.

My bottom-line is that any reasonable reading of Mitt Romney's current position on abortion is that he wants it to be outlawed and if he were president would take steps towards accomplishing that goal. And if anyone doubts that to be the case, they should ask Romney's campaign whether he would sign into law a federal ban on abortion if Roe v. Wade were to be overturned. I've already asked, and I've yet to receive a response.

Source is daily kos.

 

[OldRegular]

Romney, running for governor of Massachusetts:
"I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose and am devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard."

Romney, as governor of Massachusetts, signing into law a ban on assault weapons opposed by the NRA:
(They are)instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

Romney, as governor of Massachusetts, "The individual mandate in the state health care bill is not a tax."

The President is not the only person running for office who will have trouble running on his record.

Some people become wiser with age and experience like Romney. Others are like Obama, dumb, dumber, and dumbest!

 

[Priscilla Ann]

Why can't we keep God first and not vote for either of them? They are both anti-Christs so ultimately they are trying to enhance this world that is not my home.

I'll write someone in and let darkness vs. darkness do what it wants. But they will do it without either one getting my support. :laugh:

I agree! I will not be voting for either Romney or Obama.

 

[Zaac]

SIDEBAR:
Well, Zaac, let's just all be good Christians and stay home and not vote and let the chips fall where they may. Is that what we should do?

Nope. I advocate voting. i just don't have to vote for candidates who are against Christ.

we have darkness vs darkness in this election because the Church has compromised instead of taking a stand.

i'm taking a stand and I cannot support that which is against Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

I agree! I will not be voting for either Romney or Obama.

I am considering abstaining, or Donald Duck as a write-in.

 

[OldRegular]

I agree! I will not be voting for either Romney or Obama.

Then you, Zaac, and all with your mindset are aiding in the continuation of the destruction of the country.

Romney may not be a Christian but he is not anti Christian. Obama is anti Christian and anti American. So you choose wto serve Obama!

 

[InTheLight]

Kind of like Bush. Talked about being pro-life for the fourteen years he served in public office, yet when he left both executive positions, abortion was more legal and widespread than it was when he took office. That's what happens when your state supreme court justices and the ones you appoint to the federal Supreme Court are not pro-life.

Bush's first executive order when he became President was to stop funding abortion services in foreign countries, repealing a Clinton directive which restored the funding.

Bush also signed the Partial Birth Abortion act and it was upheld by the Supreme Court.

So your accusations ring false.

 

[Zaac]

Then you, Zaac, and all with your mindset are aiding in the continuation of the destruction of the country.

I love this country...but I don't love this country more than I love Jesus.

If not voting for an anti-Christ on the Democrat ticket or a false-god worshiping anti-Christ on the Republican ticket means the destruction of the country, then so be it.

I for one think the country turning to Christ to save it is more important than the country turning to politicians to save it.

Romney may not be a Christian but he is not anti Christian. Obama is anti Christian and anti American. So you choose wto serve Obama

I don't care if he's not anti-Christian. Christians AREN'T GOD. He's as much as an anti-Christ as is Obama and every Muslim, Hindu, Sikkh or worshiper of "another" god.

And it continues to be embarrassing that CHRISTIANS keep making excuses for why this man who worships a false god should all of a sudden be "acceptable" to the followers of Christ.

If honoring Christ leads to the destruction of this country, then the country FULLY DESERVES to be destroyed.

 

[Don]

I love this country...but I don't love this country more than I love Jesus.

That's a pretty thinly veiled way of implying that those that take politics seriously, don't love Jesus. I'm sure that's not what you meant to imply. If it was, well....

If not voting for an anti-Christ on the Democrat ticket or a false-god worshiping anti-Christ on the Republican ticket means the destruction of the country, then so be it.

Make sure your children thank you for that.

I for one think the country turning to Christ to save it is more important than the country turning to politicians to save it.

Agreed. But Jesus isn't running for president. Until He does, we have to put up with those who are.

I don't care if he's not anti-Christian. Christians AREN'T GOD. He's as much as an anti-Christ as is Obama and every Muslim, Hindu, Sikkh or worshiper of "another" god.

And it continues to be embarrassing that CHRISTIANS keep making excuses for why this man who worships a false god should all of a sudden be "acceptable" to the followers of Christ.

He's not "acceptable." He's just a better option than what's currently in the position. As the saying goes, "the enemy of my enemy...."

If honoring Christ leads to the destruction of this country, then the country FULLY DESERVES to be destroyed.

So not voting is honoring Christ?

I'm reminded of Romans 13. Some may argue that the passage doesn't deal with our elected officials, but I would remind you that the government at that time was both political and religious (religious leaders were also political figures). The principle applies.

I'm not advocating for Romney. I'm advocating for getting Obama out of office, with a candidate that will, at the minimum, do less damage to our form of government. I wasn't happy with a lot of things George Bush did; but he was more of an advocate for individual freedoms (including religious freedoms) than the sitting president is. Unfortunately, none of the 3rd party candidates have a prayer of accomplishing that goal. And if I cast a vote, or don't cast a vote, that allows the current sitting president to continue to create policies that affect my children and grandchildren, then I can't say that I did all I could to protect them.

That's where I'm coming from; and attempts to cast doubts or aspersions about my Christianity because of that position are legalistic attempts to force me to fit into your own personal conception of what Christianity is. Thanks, but I'll continue to exercise my personal and religious freedoms instead.

 

[OldRegular]

Bush also signed the Partial Birth Abortion act and it was upheld by the Supreme Court.

Clinton vetoed that law twice!

In the 30 years after Roe v Wade in 1973 until the Republicans took over the House in 1994 there was not a single piece of pro-life legislation passed in the democrat House.

The democrat party is the party of death! Islam is the religion of death!

 

[Zaac]

That's a pretty thinly veiled way of implying that those that take politics seriously, don't love Jesus. I'm sure that's not what you meant to imply. If it was, well....

I meant it exactly as I said it.

Make sure your children thank you for that.

My children are not more important to me than honoring Christ. Perhaps those who are supporting a man who does not honor Christ should ask themselves if the country is going where it is because of politics or because of a lack of Christ?

Agreed. But Jesus isn't running for president. Until He does, we have to put up with those who are.

Just another excuse. If Romney were pro-abortion, Christians wouldn't have given him a second look and wouldn't even consider voting for him even if he was the only one left. But the fact that he worships a false god doesn't seem to bother Christendom as much as abortion and same-sex stuff.

It's as though Christians don't realize or don't care that you can still be saved and be pro-abortion or same sex whatever. But if you worship a false god, you're going straight to hell.

He's not "acceptable."

He must be "acceptable" cause Christians are lining up to vote for him. :laugh:

He's just a better option than what's currently in the position. As the saying goes, "the enemy of my enemy...."

All that says is folks are more concerned about the kingdom of this world than they are about God's Kingdom.

The man worships a false god. Try having a platform to speak to anyone about sin and a need to get saved by Christ after supporting a man who worships another god.

Politics are just not so important to me that I am going to be a stumbling block to folks seeking the one true God.

So not voting is honoring Christ?

I didn't say I wasn't voting. I said I wasn't voting for the anti-Christ in office or the anti-Christ running against him from the GOP.

I'm reminded of Romans 13. Some may argue that the passage doesn't deal with our elected officials, but I would remind you that the government at that time was both political and religious (religious leaders were also political figures). The principle applies.

I'm not advocating for Romney. I'm advocating for getting Obama out of office, with a candidate that will, at the minimum, do less damage to our form of government.

And I ask the question, are we more concerned with our form of government than we are with people's eternal souls?

It will be a very dark day for the world if those who are supposed to follow Christ set a man who worships a false god up as the most powerful man in the world.

Try to turn around and speak to your lost loved ones about needing a Savior after that.

I wasn't happy with a lot of things George Bush did; but he was more of an advocate for individual freedoms (including religious freedoms) than the sitting president is.

I didn't vote for him the second time. After he told told 1.2 billion Muslims that Muslims and Christians worship the same god not once but THREE times, no way could I vote for him.

Unfortunately, none of the 3rd party candidates have a prayer of accomplishing that goal. And if I cast a vote, or don't cast a vote, that allows the current sitting president to continue to create policies that affect my children and grandchildren, then I can't say that I did all I could to protect them.

Again, and this is the biggest issue I have with folks on this issue right now. Your comment and the comments of a lot of folks says that it is more important to you to maintain this nation...this wicked earthly realm for your children and grandchildren than it is that they be saved.

If Romney gets elected it will be evangelicals who put him there. And at that point, Jesus needs to just come on back because there will be NOTHING for the Church in the United States to EVER again say to anyone about being a Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, Hindu, atheist, agnostic, liar, thief, fornicator , adulterer, etc.

Our witness will be dead.

That's where I'm coming from; and attempts to cast doubts or aspersions about my Christianity because of that position are legalistic attempts to force me to fit into your own personal conception of what Christianity is. Thanks, but I'll continue to exercise my personal and religious freedoms instead.

And likewise, the rest of the world will continue to exercise its personal and religious freedoms and march right on into an eternal lake of fire. After all, if the personal and religious freedoms of Christians will allow them to vote for a man who worships a god who doesn't save, then it must be okay for non-Christians to worship whatever god they want.

Thanks for helping folks stumble into an eternal lake of fire.

 

[Don]

There's a lot here to address; but I'm going to limit myself to only a couple of points. If there's anything you posted that you'd like me to specifically address, please let me know.

I meant it exactly as I said it.

Then I can only assume that you view those with a differing opinion as not loving Jesus--which, by the way, is in direct contradiction to your statement about people who are saved can be pro-abortion. I believe we can have different opinions about the subject, and both still be saved and love Jesus; what say you?

All that says is folks are more concerned about the kingdom of this world than they are about God's Kingdom.

As someone once said: "we are to be in the world, but not of it."

Thanks for helping folks stumble into an eternal lake of fire.

Will you vote for a Catholic? Or any individual who professes ideologies different than yours, as long as they say they're Christian?

How is keeping Obama in office less helping folks stumble into an eternal lake of fire than voting for Romney? By helping Obama stay in office, aren't we telling folks that it's okay to murder unborn children; that it's okay to engage in acts/activities that scripture clearly identifies as abominable; etc., etc.? How is that keeping them from stumbling into eternal damnation?

You're trying to say that voting for a non-Christian is somehow legitimizing that religion; we're not voting for a religion. Is Massachusetts more mormon after Romney's governorship than before it?

(I won't vote for a muslim, because islam is a political system just as much as it's a religion; therefore, any vote for a muslim is a vote for a political system other than our American one. If anyone disputes that, you just need to look at the Indiana congressman who's espousing that American schools should be more like islamic ones.)

If you're voting for someone else, who are you voting for? Who do you recommend we vote for? Let's get that out on the table, and talk abour your recommended candidate.


In one regard, I fully agree with you: We need to evangelize this country, and show them their need for Christ.

 

[Zaac]

There's a lot here to address; but I'm going to limit myself to only a couple of points. If there's anything you posted that you'd like me to specifically address, please let me know.

Then I can only assume that you view those with a differing opinion as not loving Jesus

Bad, wrong assumption.

--which, by the way, is in direct contradiction to your statement about people who are saved can be pro-abortion. I believe we can have different opinions about the subject, and both still be saved and love Jesus; what say you?

Where did I say that anyone wasn't saved or didn't love Jesus? I merely stressed that certain actions seem to point to folks having a greater love for their politics.

As someone once said: "we are to be in the world, but not of it."

That's right. And folks OF the world are more concerned about this world than they are about eternity.

Will you vote for a Catholic? Or any individual who professes ideologies different than yours, as long as they say they're Christian?

I'm not voting for anyone who worships a false god. 80+ percent of Americans say that they are Christians and I'm not aligning with most of them either.

You can call yourself whatever you want and I'm going to juxtapose it to what GOD says. If the two ain't in sync and you're not worshiping God as Who HE says He is, then I'm not supporting you.

I would vote for a Catholic who had repented of his sins and been created anew by Jesus Christ.

If you're following CHRIST, more power to ya. But I've got the Holy Spirit to let me know whose god ain't Jesus Christ. So Mitt and the rest of the Mormons can scream that they are Christians all day and it won't mean a thing because the Holy Spirit has already delivered truth.

How is keeping Obama in office less helping folks stumble into an eternal lake of fire than voting for Romney?

I don't know too many conservative evangelicals who came out in support of Obama to get him elected. Evangelicals were completely against the things he was for. But worshiping a false god doesn't appear to measure up to those things.

So yes, evangelicals coming out in support of a man who worships a false god is a stumbling block to every unsaved person in the country because it CLEARLY says that if it's an issue of rescuing this country's economy, Christians are willing to endorse that which God hates. You expressed a desire to do something about policies that will affect your children and grandchildren.

I'm more concerned about whether there will be anyone to effect the eternity of your children and grandchildren than I am about policies affecting their stay in this world.

By helping Obama stay in office, aren't we telling folks that it's okay to murder unborn children; that it's okay to engage in acts/activities that scripture clearly identifies as abominable; etc., etc.? How is that keeping them from stumbling into eternal damnation?

And right here is why I keep asking the question of why Christians seem to think that abortion and participating in abominable acts is a bigger issue than worshiping a false god?

You can be pro-abortion or participate in those abominable acts and still go to heaven. You can't worship a false god as God and go to heaven.

You're trying to say that voting for a non-Christian is somehow legitimizing that religion; we're not voting for a religion. Is Massachusetts more mormon after Romney's governorship than before it?

You just asked if voting for Obama, would it not tell folks its okay to murder unborn babies and commit abominable acts. Why wouldn't voting for Romney tell folks it's okay to worship a false god?

If you're voting for someone else, who are you voting for? Who do you recommend we vote for? Let's get that out on the table, and talk abour your recommended candidate.

I haven't decided yet who I'm writing in. But it will definitely be someone who has taken a stand for Christ.

In one regard, I fully agree with you: We need to evangelize this country, and show them their need for Christ.

And how do Christians plan to do that after supporting that which is against Christ? It's like talking out the side of our necks.

How are we gonna support that which is against Christ, and then turn around and try to show them why they need Christ?

It is the ugliest picture of hypocrisy I have ever seen. And I'm sure that you know all too well how the unchurched and lost feel about Christian hypocrisy.

 

[InTheLight]

By helping Obama stay in office, aren't we telling folks that it's okay to murder unborn children; that it's okay to engage in acts/activities that scripture clearly identifies as abominable; etc., etc.? How is that keeping them from stumbling into eternal damnation?

Zaac likes to say that we're ruining our witness if we vote for a person that worships a false god. Your point is a good one--being pro abortion and pro gay-rights is also a poor witness. Furthermore as far as who will be found in the lake of fire, well, it's people that worship a false god as well as murderers, fornicators, etc.

So I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how voting for a person who commits idolatry (false god) is worse than one that is pro murder (abortionist) or pro fornication (gay rights).

Revelation 21:8
Galatians 5:19-20

 

[InTheLight]

You can be pro-abortion or participate in those abominable acts and still go to heaven. You can't worship a false god as God and go to heaven.

Sorry, they're all damning acts.

Rev 21: 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[Zaac]

Zaac likes to say that we're ruining our witness if we vote for a person that worships a false god. Your point is a good one--being pro abortion and pro gay-rights is also a poor witness. Furthermore as far as who will be found in the lake of fire, well, it's people that worship a false god as well as murderers, fornicators, etc.

So I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how voting for a person who commits idolatry (false god) is worse than one that is pro murder (abortionist) or pro fornication (gay rights).

Revelation 21:8
Galatians 5:19-20

Well, I do find it odd how many Christians seem to think abortion is bad but don't have a problem with worshiping a false god.

And it's worse because being in support of abortion or gay rights ain't gonna keep anyone out of heaven. Pointing folks to a false god will.

 

[Zaac]

Sorry, they're all damning acts.

Rev 21: 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

I didn't say they weren't damning acts. A person can be a Christian and do any of those things and they still be covered by the blood of Christ.

You can't worship a false god and be a Christian.

 

[carpro]

The one that's not Barack Obama only appears to not be Barack Obama when it's politically expedient.

I can tell the difference.

If you can't, vote for Obama.