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"... white Christianity is doomed..."

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Wesley Briggman, Feb 9, 2021.

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  1. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    First of all, the reformation was the result of God. Not Luther. And it was already occurring with many others before Luther. It was Luther that brought it to the forefront.

    Reformed doctrine and the Reformation are two different things. The Reformers were coming out of the darkness of Romanist doctrine. And many still held to some Roman false doctrines. Luther himself was not trying to break away from the Roman Church. But he questioned the authority of the Roman Church.

    In other words, the Reformers didn't know everything about the Bible. So their doctrine would change as they grew and studied the Scriptures.

    But, there is nothing to support your claim that Luther was a false prophet. Nothing. As I said already, his opinion of the Jews didn't affect his salvation. And just because you never heard the gospel in your Lutheran church doesn't mean anything. It just shows how far the Lutheran church has fallen away.

    Have you ever read Luther's commentaries on (Romans) or (Galatians)? Perhaps you should.

    Quantrill
     
    #81 Quantrill, Feb 19, 2021
  2. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    And still do.

    And still don't.

    Obedience to a saint of the RCC never produced a prophet of God.

    I agree. He never experienced salvation, therefore his opinion of the Jews did not have any affect.

    His treatise of the Jews, "OF JEWS AND THEIR LIES", was not a product of a born-again believer who has the Mind of Christ.

    [1Co 2:16 KJV] 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
     
    #82 Wesley Briggman, Feb 19, 2021
  3. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Have you ever read Luther's commentaries on (Romans) and (Galatians)?

    Quantrill
     
    #83 Quantrill, Feb 20, 2021
  4. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    No. And do not intend to.

    I cannot foresee any commentary he could compose that would change my view of his spiritually lost state.
     
    #84 Wesley Briggman, Feb 20, 2021
  5. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Probably best.

    It shows you are not looking for the truth about Luther. You want to condemn him. You have found something you can hang your hat on to condemn him with. Why read something that shows you that you are wrong?

    Quantrill
     
    #85 Quantrill, Feb 20, 2021
  6. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    I cannot condemn or redeem anyone. I do not have any desire to condemn Luther. That is God's perview.

    Does he give his testimony of being born-again in one or both of his commentaries? If so, I will accept his word and admit my error.

    However, I will never agree with his consubstantiation doctrine, among others.

    As far as I know he never did breakaway from the RCC, it kicked him out. Afterward, he took issue with other of their doctrines.

    Fallen away from Biblical teaching? A church cannot fall away from a doctrine it never embraced.

    Pleas provide me any documentation from a certifiable Lutheran source that the Lutheran church taught a person must be born-again to become a child of God.
     
    #86 Wesley Briggman, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  7. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Could reformed doctrine have developed without the Reformation? Sounds like you think it could have. I think they are intertwined and inseparable.
     
    #87 Wesley Briggman, Feb 20, 2021
  8. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    You said Luther never experienced salvation. If that is not condemning...what is?

    Why don't you just read Luther's commentaries on (Romans) and (Galatians). You don't need to trust what I say that he said.

    I am not arguing in defense of the Lutheran Church. I am arguing with you over the person of Martin Luther.

    Quantrill
     
    #88 Quantrill, Feb 20, 2021
  9. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Not all Reformers had the same doctrine. Of course the Reformation was necessary for Protestantism to exist and develop it's doctrines.

    Point being: The reformers didn't have all knowledge of the Bible. They had enough at that time to know they had enough of the Roman Church. That doesn't mean there wasn't more to learn. But many in the 'Reformed Faith' act as if what the Reformers knew was the total of Bible knowledge. And that just isn't so.

    Quantrill
     
    #89 Quantrill, Feb 20, 2021
  10. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Apparently still don't.
     
    #90 Wesley Briggman, Feb 20, 2021
  11. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]​
    WORLD WAR II · TIME-LIFE BOOKS · ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA

    When Hitler began preaching anti-Semitism, he might have
    taken his text from the 16th Century German theologian
    Martin Luther, who in railing against many groups that op-
    posed his new church declared that the Jews were "like
    a plague, pestilence, pure misfortune." Luther charged:

    "They let us work in the sweat of our noses, to earn money
    and property for them, while they sit behind the oven, la-
    zy, let off gas, bake pears, eat, drink, live softly and well
    from our wealth."

    Actually, Martin Luther's anti-Semitism-and German
    anti-Semitism for generations after him-differed little in
    kind from anti-Semitism anywhere else in Europe. But the
    ancient prejudice seemed to grow stronger in Germany in
    the early 19th Century with the rise of nationalism; in fact,
    in Germany the two often intermeshed.



    Page 135


    BY ROBERT EDWIN HERZSTEIN

    AND THE EDITORS OF TIME-LIFE BOOKS
     
    #91 Wesley Briggman, Feb 21, 2021
  12. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    You love the articles against Luther, yet refuse to read Luther's commentaries on (Romans) and (Galatians). Typical.

    Quantrill
     
    #92 Quantrill, Feb 21, 2021
  13. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    If you consider Luther to be a brother in Christ, consider the following command:


    1Ti 6:3 KJV - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
    1Ti 6:4 KJV - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
    1Ti 6:5 KJV - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
     
    #93 Wesley Briggman, Feb 22, 2021
  14. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Ok. I considered it and still consider Luther a brother in Christ.

    Quantrill
     
    #94 Quantrill, Feb 23, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    So be it.
     
    #95 Wesley Briggman, Feb 23, 2021
  16. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Reassuring Weller of his saving faith, Luther wrote, “When the devil throws our sins up to us and declares we deserve death and hell, we ought to speak thus: ‘I admit I deserve death and hell. What of it? Does this mean I shall be sentenced to eternal damnation? By no means. For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction in my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Where he is, there I shall be also.’”

    https://voice.dts.edu/article/lutherandcalvinonsalvation/
     
    #96 Scott Downey, Feb 23, 2021
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