Who are the "spirits" in 1 Peter 3:19?

[kyredneck]

I am looking for positions and data points regarding 1 Peter 3:19 and in particular who are the "spirits in prison" and what is Christ doing there.

The passage jibes neatly with the type of Joseph.

Joseph interpreted dreams while in prison before being elevated to the right hand of Pharoah and to ultimately feed the nations that came to him.

Christ preached to the prisoners before being elevated to sit at the right hand of God and feed the nations that come to Him.

 

[Paleouss]

ok but, that is an opinion, as you stated. I try, hard, never to form opinions and to listen, instead, to the Spirit of Truth that indwells all Christ Followers. From whince do you form this opinion.

Greetings brother Bill. Thank you for your time.

I'm going to hold off for a bit in presenting the verses I think are applicable and the reasoning from them only so that I can hear others thoughts and try and weigh them. I'll then come back and address what I think might be most likely (I say most likely because I do think it is a difficult verse to pin down).

Peace to you

 

[Paleouss]

Greetings percho. Peace to you brother.

Do these verses speak of men as being spirits as also of angels being spirits?

Yes, I think within the biblical text both men and angels are referred to as being "spirits". Another one would be “the prince of the power of air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience” (Eph 2:2). Satan, an angel, is referred to as "the spirit".

I am not sure 1 peter 3:19 is speaking of men at all.

It is possible, imo.

Maybe it is speaking of the angels of Rev 12:9. And or; For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And or; And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Here is what we know for sure... (1) the who are "spirits", this could include men or angels since both are referenced that way within the biblical text; (2) these spirits are "in prison"; this might be a tough Greek word: phylakē which could mean (a) keep watch, guard, or (b) a place where captives are kept; (3) these spirits were "once disobedient".

The captive saints view would seem to agree with (1) being spirits (men), (2) being confined by the power of sin, death, and Hades and needing set free to be in the presence of the Lord (3) victory being claimed (this would not be "preached" but "proclaimed"). However, would seem to stumble over being "once disobedient" and the possible reference to time, i.e., in the days of Noah.

On the other hand, the chained angel view would seem to agree with (1) being spirits (angels), (2) being confined by chains of darkness, (3) victory being claimed to these fallen angels (sort of a, in your face), (4) also agreeable with the "being disobedient".

The fallen angel view from that angle looks like it matches up more. But the fallen angel view doesn't seem to match up with the immediate context, imo.

This is the immediate context

(1Pe 3:18 NKJV) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

So Peter appears to set the context by saying, Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust. THEN Peter would appear to be giving two examples of this.

1st example (which are of those in the past)

(1Pe 3:19-20 NKJV) 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while [the] ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

and then Peter writes...

"21 There is also..."

and now appears to go into the second, in the present, example.

(1Pe 3:21 NKJV) 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The two example appear to be dissimilar in that one is "of old" and the other "present times". However, the two examples appear to be similar in the way of being both a time of "baptism". The first, a flood, symbolism of what was to come...and the second the fulfillment of that which was to come.

All of this leans more toward the release of the captive saints by the power of death and Hades, imo. Where this context would be a hurdle for the angel view. In other words, the angel view looks better in a vacuum of only v19-20 but doesn't seem to fit as well when v18 & 21 are brought in.

What do you think?


Peace to you brother

 

[Paleouss]

The passage jibes neatly with the type of Joseph.

Joseph interpreted dreams while in prison before being elevated to the right hand of Pharoah and to ultimately feed the nations that came to him.

Christ preached to the prisoners before being elevated to sit at the right hand of God and feed the nations that come to Him.

Greetings kyredneck. Peace to you and thank you. I will consider this.

As an aside: Do you think Isa 61:1 would apply to 1Peter 3:19?

(Isa 61:1 NKJV) 1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to [those who are] bound;

In other words, is Peter referring to a prophecy in Isa 61:1?


Peace to you

 

[Van]

Greetings brother Van. Peace to you. Thank you for your time.

Do you have any verse or reasoning why you think the "proclamation" is the "presenting the gospel" and not a proclamation of victory?

Same question about the gospel here.

Do you think it might be the case that the preaching of a Savior was already preached to the souls prior to the flood by....

Noah
(1) 2Pe 2:5 "and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, [one of] eight [people], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;"

Enoch
(2) Jde 1:14 "Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,"

These two pre-flood figures, there may be more since Genesis 4:26 states that men began to call upon the name of the Lord, seemed to have been messengers to the hearts and minds of the pre-flood people.

What do you think?


Ok. So my previous you seem to think might be possible. But you prefer...

Two questions:
(1) Do you base the Abraham's bosom off of Luke 17?
(2) Is there any significance to the preposition "in prison" here? In other words, is it most reasonable to think that "spirits" in the state of being "in prison" would be considered in Abraham's bosom (which is a state of comfort, rest, and safety)?

Following this through. Do you think that it is most reasonable (by this I mean most likely based on evidence) to use "disobedient" and "8 in Noah's family" as synonymous?

I think it can be clearly seen that "spirits" in Abraham's bosom can be considered "in prison" and not in the presence of the Lord, yet. However, the "disobedient" seems to be a hurdle.

This seems to be the reading of the text...

Who and What State:
spirits <-- in prison,

Who and Adjective:
spirits <-- who once were disobedient

Who and Time reference:
spirts <-- when <-- the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah,
.......... <-- when <-- during the construction of the ark,
.......... <-- when <-- in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

The problem I see with Abraham bosom option, which I think is possible, is that the natural reading of the text seems to be speaking specifically about particular "spirits" that it narrows down for us by the time reference. Suggesting possibly that the "eight persons" are contemporaries. This narrowing down of time reference seems to interfere with a general "Abraham bosom" all the saints view. Now that doesn't mean to say that Christ didn't free the saints in Abraham's bosom through His victory. Just that here in 1 Peter it seems to be narrowing the field with the qualifiers for a more particular reference of "spirits".

What do you think?

Are those in Abraham's bosom considered "disobedient"?




Peace to you brother.

1) Proclamation as used in 1 Peter 3:19: From Strong's - "b. specifically used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers: absolutely, Matthew 11:1; Mark 1:38; Mark 3:14; Mark 16:20; Romans 10:15; with the dative of the person to whom the proclamation is made, 1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Peter 3:19;"

2) Do you think the "spirits" only referred to the souls who received "preaching" before the flood? No. But I do believe some pre-flood souls, probably including Cain and Enoch plus the eight, are included in those captive in Abraham's bosom.

3) Why apply the term "in prison" to those waiting in comfort in Abraham's bosom? They are confined, unable to enter heaven, as they have not yet received the washing of regeneration provided by Christ's sacrifice, the just for the unjust including them.

4) Disobedient as used in 1 Peter 3:20 means "not believing" (since they all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and therefore needed to believe in Christ's sacrifice, before they could enter heaven. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

5) Why is not the "when" confined to the days before the Flood during the construction of the ark? I presented by view, paragraph 6 of my post #15. It is an illustration of Christ's ark which saves believers. Thus the illustration has a wider application, only those in the Ark of Christ enter heaven.

6) Were those confined in Abraham's bosom disobedient? Yes, they had been, for all have sinned. They were believers, chosen for salvation, but they did not yet believe in the salvation offered by Christ. That is why they needed to be preached to, and after believing in the name of Jesus Christ, they were led captive to heaven. Free at last...

 

[th1bill]

When the scriptures speak of Angles or of men, that is not a virtualization of some manor.

 

[th1bill]

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Heb 1:13,14

Heb 12:23 YLT to the company and assembly of the first-born in heaven enrolled, and to God the judge of all, and to spirits of righteous men made perfect,

Do these verses speak of men as being spirits as also of angels being spirits?

I am not sure 1 peter 3:19 is speaking of men at all. Maybe it is speaking of the angels of Rev 12:9. And or; For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And or; And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

As we study under the tutoring of Ruah we learn that the inner man, the eternal being, is spirit. In that manor we are, in a fashion, like unto Angles. Yehovah Jira is Spirit and we, like the Angles are, in a this fashion, created in the Image of Yehovah.

 

[th1bill]

Greetings brother Bill. Thank you for your time.

I'm going to hold off for a bit in presenting the verses I think are applicable and the reasoning from them only so that I can hear others thoughts and try and weigh them. I'll then come back and address what I think might be most likely (I say most likely because I do think it is a difficult verse to pin down).

Peace to you

Shalom

 

[Van]

Oops - I see I blundered once again in post #25, I wrote "But I do believe some pre-flood souls, probably including Cain and Enoch plus the eight, are included in those captive in Abraham's bosom," when I meant to write, "...including Abel and Enoch....."

 

[percho]

Just a thought.

By what spirit did Christ go and preach to the spirits in prison, leading captivity captive?

 

[Paleouss]

Greeting

3) Why apply the term "in prison" to those waiting in comfort in Abraham's bosom? They are confined, unable to enter heaven, as they have not yet received the washing of regeneration provided by Christ's sacrifice, the just for the unjust including them.

Seems reasonable.

4) Disobedient as used in 1 Peter 3:20 means "not believing" (since they all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and therefore needed to believe in Christ's sacrifice, before they could enter heaven. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

I still seem to be stuck on the fact that Peter seems to be giving a specific reference. I do recognize you have stated that you think this "preaching" was to those before the flood and was imagery for Christ's ark.

Given the specific time reference of "in the days of Noah" and "during the construction of the ark" is it possible that Peter is referencing the only specific time found in the OT text regarding the reference, that is...

(Gen 6:2) 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they [were] beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Now the Angel Advocate tells us this is what Peter is referencing, therefore they contend that Peter is referring to angels when he says "spirits in prison". However, if one takes a 'godly man' view in Gen 6:2, could it be that Peter is referencing Genesis 6:2 because the "sons of God", who are godly men, were "disobedient" and married outside the faith and took multiple wives?

It seems clear within the text that these 'godly men' (sons of God) were disobedient, for the text uses their actions as conditions that led to the flood. I find it no coincidence that after Genesis chapter 6 the biblical text starts giving warning-after-warning about out of faith marriage. Because...

Judges 3:6
6 And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons; and they served their gods.

Deuteronomy 17:17
17 "Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

1 Kings 11:3
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.

This specific event in Genesis 6:2 would seem to have both components needed for the "(since they all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God)", you presented. The first component being that they were "sons of God" (godly men) who "began to call on the name of the LORD" (Gen 4:26). The second component would be the "disobedience" that is recorded within the biblical text in Genesis 6:2.

Godly men before the flood would be anticipating the promise of a Savior already prophesied in Genesis 3:15. But godly men who are disobedient (gone astray) are chastened.

So we have 'godly men' who 'were disobedient' during the exact time in which Peter would seem to reference.

What do you think about this?

5) Why is not the "when" confined to the days before the Flood during the construction of the ark? I presented by view, paragraph 6 of my post #15. It is an illustration of Christ's ark which saves believers. Thus the illustration has a wider application, only those in the Ark of Christ enter heaven.

Do you think it could be a specific reference like I just present above...AND...imagery of Christ's ark which saves believers?

Bless you for your time

Peace to you brother

 

[Paleouss]

Greetings again percho. Hope your weekend was a good one.

Just a thought.

By what spirit did Christ go and preach to the spirits in prison, leading captivity captive?

Can you expand on that?



Peace to you

 

[JD731]

IMO it is the OT saints including those before the flood. The reason they are singled out is because they lived in the dispensation of conscience and was responsible to God to choose good over evil because they knew the difference. But that is all they knew. Peter's audience knew much more but the conscience is the appeal for them to do right in this context. The conscience is mentioned twice in the chapter. When he says he went to preach to them in the Spirit it means that during their lifetimes he was the silent witness as opposed to being one who appears.

Those in prison are those who are resting in paradise in the center of the earth whom he led out after the resurrection of Jesus Christ after they were washed of their sins in his blood.

Ep 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things)

I could be wrong about this.

 

[percho]

Just a thought.

By what spirit did Christ go and preach to the spirits in prison, leading captivity captive?

I asked for a reason. Was it by the following, "spirit"?

Luke 23:43 and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit.

Was it expired unto the hands of the Father or unto omnipresent?

V 18 states anointed was made alive yet [to/unto the, to/unto spirit]. When, when was anointed quickened to the spirit?

For how long was he descended before he ascended? Was it anointed being made alive to the spirit that led captivity [death], captive?
Heb 2:15 and might deliver those, whoever, with fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage,

where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?' 1 Cor 15







w

 

[Van]

Greeting


Seems reasonable.

I still seem to be stuck on the fact that Peter seems to be giving a specific reference. I do recognize you have stated that you think this "preaching" was to those before the flood and was imagery for Christ's ark.

Given the specific time reference of "in the days of Noah" and "during the construction of the ark" is it possible that Peter is referencing the only specific time found in the OT text regarding the reference, that is...

(Gen 6:2) 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they [were] beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Now the Angel Advocate tells us this is what Peter is referencing, therefore they contend that Peter is referring to angels when he says "spirits in prison". However, if one takes a 'godly man' view in Gen 6:2, could it be that Peter is referencing Genesis 6:2 because the "sons of God", who are godly men, were "disobedient" and married outside the faith and took multiple wives?

It seems clear within the text that these 'godly men' (sons of God) were disobedient, for the text uses their actions as conditions that led to the flood. I find it no coincidence that after Genesis chapter 6 the biblical text starts giving warning-after-warning about out of faith marriage. Because...

Judges 3:6
6 And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons; and they served their gods.

Deuteronomy 17:17
17 "Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

1 Kings 11:3
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.

This specific event in Genesis 6:2 would seem to have both components needed for the "(since they all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God)", you presented. The first component being that they were "sons of God" (godly men) who "began to call on the name of the LORD" (Gen 4:26). The second component would be the "disobedience" that is recorded within the biblical text in Genesis 6:2.

Godly men before the flood would be anticipating the promise of a Savior already prophesied in Genesis 3:15. But godly men who are disobedient (gone astray) are chastened.

So we have 'godly men' who 'were disobedient' during the exact time in which Peter would seem to reference.

What do you think about this?


Do you think it could be a specific reference like I just present above...AND...imagery of Christ's ark which saves believers?

Bless you for your time

Peace to you brother

1) To repeat, the illustration from people being saved by Noah's ark, has a wider application as an illustration of Christ's ark. See 1 Peter 3:21 which clearly says the Noah's ark illustration "corresponds" to Christ's ark, which we enter through spiritual baptism into Christ.

2) The Genesis 6:2 reference has no application to the issue of the illustration of Christ's ark. Ditto for the other Old Covenant references. The application is of the New Covenant, not the Old.