Who are, "Those thou hast given to me..."

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Winman,


This evil statement is very disturbing....especially since none of the supposed quotes.....use the word sin.

looks as if that word was supplied by you....so once again you can blame God.




It does not seem to be the case....when you add words that are not there to fit your agenda.
This makes you not a credible witness....you are dismissed:godisgood:

here is another word for that kind of activity.... "Disingenuous"

 

[quantumfaith]

A good summary of the biggest difference between them, I think. While one group says Jesus' work merely makes salvation possible for "whosoever will," the other says that Jesus' work fully accomplished the salvation of the Elect. The Holy Spirit applies that finished work to those the Father has given to the Son.

I apologize if my picture of God pacing heaven's floors helplessly hoping that someone on Earth would "let Him have His way" was offensive. I don't mean to offend, but that is the picture I can't help getting in my mind during those pleading altar calls that seem to depict Him that way.

"Jesus is knocking at the door of your heart, pleading to be let in...."

It's just so opposite of the picture that scripture paints for us, where sinners are the ones on the outside pleading for entrance. The human heart is not some warm, cozy place that would be a nice home for Holy God. In fact, the heart is "deceitful above all things and desperately wicked." Not a place that the Lord would wish to dwell. It is we sinners who long for the beauty and holiness of His heart! And Christ is not left out in the cold at the mercy of the unregenerate, it is the other way around!

Perhaps I'll write a big ol' honking post on why altar calls offend me, suggesting an alternative to this man-made invention which has become as cherished a tradition among evangelicals as ceremonial handwashing was to the Pharisees.

I agree with you on the dislike of altar calls, or 37 verses of "Just as I am". But I also respect that at times, some pastors sense the spirit is leading them to open an public invitation to acknowledge and profess Christ.

 

[Winman]

Winman,

This evil statement is very disturbing....especially since none of the supposed quotes.....use the word sin.

looks as if that word was supplied by you....so once again you can blame God.

It does not seem to be the case....when you add words that are not there to fit your agenda.
This makes you not a credible witness....you are dismissed:godisgood:

Now you are playing word games. Calvin used the words "evils", "evil minds", "reprobate", "corrupt affections", "error", etc... Calvin is absolutely speaking of sin and sinners.

Calvin didn't say men willingly commit error, he says they are "dragged headlong into error", he said the "internal affections" (he is speaking of the desire to sin here) are ruled by God, and that God "works the very will" in the hearts of these "reprobate characters" to make them willing to perform the works they do.

Play your word games, you know as well as I do that Calvin was speaking of sin.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree with you on the dislike of altar calls, or 37 verses of "Just as I am". But I also respect that at times, some pastors sense the spirit is leading them to open an public invitation to acknowledge and profess Christ.

Dave... but isn't all life a public invitation to acknowledge and profess Christ? Isn't that whats called the Great Commission? To profess Christ to the world that He is our Lord & Savior.

In some cases, it will not be easy & we will be harassed & scorned & made fun of. I was at a church on the Jersey shore on a public boardwalk & I witnessed 1st hand several young men who walked in & began cat calling & yelling profanities at the pastor & the people in service. I expect to see that much more in the years to come. But the Pastor stood his ground & displayed why he represents Christ. Thats what I call a true profession of Faith (in persecution). What a witness my eyes beheld that day....what an example of a true Christian that man was.

 

[jbh28]

Now you are playing word games. Calvin used the words "evils", "evil minds", "reprobate", "corrupt affections", "error", etc... Calvin is absolutely speaking of sin and sinners.

Calvin didn't say men willingly commit error, he says they are "dragged headlong into error", he said the "internal affections" (he is speaking of the desire to sin here) are ruled by God, and that God "works the very will" in the hearts of these "reprobate characters" to make them willing to perform the works they do.

Play your word games, you know as well as I do that Calvin was speaking of sin.

you speaking of this quote of Calvin?

"Hence you see that Satan is not only " a lying spirit in the mouth of all the prophets," at the express command of God, but also that his impostures so ensnare the reprobate, that, being utterly deprived of their reason, they are, of necessity, dragged headlong into error."

 

[quantumfaith]

Dave... but isn't all life a public invitation to acknowledge and profess Christ? Isn't that whats called the Great Commission? To profess Christ to the world that He is our Lord & Savior.

In some cases, it will not be easy & we will be harassed & scorned & made fun of. I was at a church on the Jersey shore on a public boardwalk & I witnessed 1st hand several young men who walked in & began cat calling & yelling profanities at the pastor & the people in service. I expect to see that much more in the years to come. But the Pastor stood his ground & displayed why he represents Christ. Thats what I call a true profession of Faith (in persecution). What a witness my eyes beheld that day....what an example of a true Christian that man was.

Yes it is, but sometimes even "man created traditions" can be comforting and used by God to touch peoples lives. At my church, we do not have altar calls or invitations, something I like. Most at my church who wish to make public their relationship with God do so in most cases through small groups and their leaders as well as meeting with our pastor and staff. I myself made my profession of faith and relationship publicly through an invitation in our Church in Germany. It was, at the time, an accepted tradition, a very pleasant memory for me. At this point in my life, I much prefer to discuss matters with individuals and appreciate when they articulate where they are with respect to God.

 

[Van]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.

can ANYTHING ever happen that either God did not cause to occur, or else allowed it to happen? is he ever caught "blind sided, how did that happen?"

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.[/QUOTE]

Good post Van.....just wonderful:thumbs:

Let's see which wicked Calvinists have taught that fallen men are only able to sin?????

First there was the evil Calvinist Moses-

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Only evil continually....

then we have another calvinist...Solomon:

3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead[/QUOTE



Yes Van...we see it now....Soloman full of shuck and jive, real twaddle..fiddlesticks.....scripture said God gave him wisdom above the other men.....was that only until you and other members of team Jihad have come along to help us poor victims of calvinism

These men were so arrogant, they were not tolerant and diverse ...were they.
No they just believe that the fall happened as scripture said and has left natural men as that other evil calvinist paul described them;

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Other than that your posts are just wonderful

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.[/QUOTE]

Good post Van.....just wonderful:thumbs:

Let's see which wicked Calvinists have taught that fallen men are only able to sin?????

First there was the evil Calvinist Moses-
[/B]

Only evil continually....

then we have another calvinist...Solomon:

3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead[/QUOTE



Yes Van...we see it now....Soloman full of shuck and jive, real twaddle..fiddlesticks.....scripture said God gave him wisdom above the other men.....was that only until you and other members of team Jihad have come along to help us poor victims of calvinism

These men were so arrogant, they were not tolerant and diverse ...were they.
No they just believe that the fall happened as scripture said and has left natural men as that other evil calvinist paul described them;



Other than that your posts are just wonderful

Well, they do point ou tthe truth that there 'seems" a way right to men, but?

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.[/QUOTE]

Good post Van.....just wonderful:thumbs:

Let's see which wicked Calvinists have taught that fallen men are only able to sin?????

First there was the evil Calvinist Moses-
[/B]

Only evil continually....

then we have another calvinist...Solomon:


Well, they do point ou tthe truth that there 'seems" a way right to men, but?

Yes...the Calvinist Solomon wrote it twice for emphasis; 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

AND 16:25
25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[quantumfaith]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.[/QUOTE]

Good post Van.....just wonderful:thumbs:

Let's see which wicked Calvinists have taught that fallen men are only able to sin?????

First there was the evil Calvinist Moses-
[/B]

Only evil continually....

then we have another calvinist...Solomon:

3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead[/QUOTE



Yes Van...we see it now....Soloman full of shuck and jive, real twaddle..fiddlesticks.....scripture said God gave him wisdom above the other men.....was that only until you and other members of team Jihad have come along to help us poor victims of calvinism

These men were so arrogant, they were not tolerant and diverse ...were they.
No they just believe that the fall happened as scripture said and has left natural men as that other evil calvinist paul described them;



Other than that your posts are just wonderful

Moses was a calvinist? Dern I didnt know that.

 

[humblethinker]

Moses was a calvinist? Dern I didnt know that.

Exodus 4 clearly shows us that Moses did not think that all was determined!
No QF, Moses was an Open Theist! ;-)

 

[quantumfaith]

Exodus 4 clearly shows us that Moses did not think that all was determined!
No QF, Moses was an Open Theist! ;-)

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists say God is sovereign which is code for God predestines everything, including sin. In defense of this hogwash, they offer shuck and jive, such as charging non-Calvinists with blaming God for our sinful choices. No, that again would be Calvinism's doctrine of total spiritual inability, where fallen men are only able to sin.[/QUOTE]

Good post Van.....just wonderful:

Let's see which wicked Calvinists have taught that fallen men are only able to sin?????

First there was the evil Calvinist Moses-
[/B]

Only evil continually....

then we have another calvinist...Solomon:



Moses was a calvinist? Dern I didnt know that.

Certainly QF,
Most calvinists have not read calvin.Calvin read Moses and the apostles and prophets,as they spoke about Jesus. He just wrote about it a lot more than us.
Calvinism is another name for the biblical teaching.Calvinism is another name for the gospel....because to understand Paul, explaining the gospel as the power of God...he said two times in 1 cor 15:
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

He links the gospel to all the scriptures:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Van]

can ANYTHING ever happen that either God did not cause to occur, or else allowed it to happen? is he ever caught "blind sided, how did that happen?"

Why are you stating my view, God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, as if that was your view. The Calvinist view is that God predestines whatsoever comes to pass.

Is God ever blind sided? No.

Calvinism says God knows the future exhaustively, and therefore the future is fixed, closed, settled and predetermined. It is simply a mystery how this does not make God the author of sin.

Some Arminians say God knows the future exhaustively, yet this does not fix, settle or predetermine the future choices of people. It is simply a mystery how this is accomplished.

 

[Van]

Did Moses say men were unable to seek God and strive to live righteously? A Calvinist would say yes and cite Genesis 6:5, attributing it in support of total spiritual inability. However, if you simply read down to verse 6:8 you find a person in this fallen condition, Noah, who found favor in the eyes of the Lord. So even though every intent of the thoughts of Noah's heart was continually evil, he managed at times to seek the righteousness of God. Somehow God saw righteousness in Noah.

 

[Van]

Solomon say men were unable to seek God and strive to live righteously. A Calvinist would say yes and cite Ecclesiastes 93, attributing it in support of total spiritually inability. However, if you simply read the prior verse (9:2) you find that some men do strive to live righteously.

In summary, Calvinism misrepresents passage after passage, claiming what is not actually in the text, as being in the text.

 

[Yeshua1]

Why are you stating my view, God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, as if that was your view. The Calvinist view is that God predestines whatsoever comes to pass.

Is God ever blind sided? No.

Calvinism says God knows the future exhaustively, and therefore the future is fixed, closed, settled and predetermined. It is simply a mystery how this does not make God the author of sin.

Some Arminians say God knows the future exhaustively, yet this does not fix, settle or predetermine the future choices of people. It is simply a mystery how this is accomplished.

Actually , many cals see God BOTH directly causing, and allowing for other decisions to happen, ALL under His direct control though!

Are people allowed to do things, make choices that either God did not see happening, or else had no control over?

 

[Iconoclast]

Exodus 4 clearly shows us that Moses did not think that all was determined!
No QF, Moses was an Open Theist! ;-)

No....Pharoah was the only open theist there......it did not work out well for him.