Who Has Part in The First Resurrection?

[OldRegular]

The Apostle John was definitely not a dispensationalist!

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
.
John 6:40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Since John wrote what God said it is obvious that God did not deal in different ways with mankind at different times. God has always dealt with man through Divine Grace.

 

[DHK]

The Apostle John was definitely not a dispensationalist!

Probably not!
No doubt he never heard of the trinity either. He probably never studied Christology, and when he was transported in a vision to heaven twice he committed idolatry by bowing down to an angel.
So what does this prove? Do you have a point?

Revelation is progressive, especially our understanding of it.

 

[prophet]

Rev 20:4-8
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrectionn such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


If this isn't a thousand years, than nothing in the Bible can be taken at face value.

 

[OldRegular]

Rev 20:4-8
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrectionn such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


If this isn't a thousand years, than nothing in the Bible can be taken at face value.

Do you take John 6:51-55 at face value?

51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Roman Catholics do!

 

[OldRegular]

Probably not!
No doubt he never heard of the trinity either. He probably never studied Christology, and when he was transported in a vision to heaven twice he committed idolatry by bowing down to an angel.
So what does this prove? Do you have a point?

Revelation is progressive, especially our understanding of it.

Don't think much of the "beloved" Apostle do you? But that is typical.

 

[prophet]

Do you take John 6:51-55 at face value?

51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Roman Catholics do!

This is metaphorical....what is your point.
I ate of His flesh, and He is in me.

I don't.do it again at Mess every Sat.Night.
I took Him in once, for all.

 

[OldRegular]

This is metaphorical....what is your point.
I ate of His flesh, and He is in me.

I don't.do it again at Mess every Sat.Night.
I took Him in once, for all.

My point is: Make up your mind. How do you know the 1000 years is not symbolic? You don't!

 

[DHK]

My point is: Make up your mind. How do you know the 1000 years is not symbolic? You don't!

He said: "I am the door."
How do you know Christ isn't a literal door?
These truths are self-evident. They are figures of speech, particularly called metaphors.
When John records a thousand years it is historical, not allegorical. Yes, a thousand is a thousand. Make it something else then why don't make Christ someone else??

 

[DHK]

Don't think much of the "beloved" Apostle do you? But that is typical.

I was just stating the obvious.
But if John were to choose, since the Lord showed him a period of a thousand years of peace and a seven year period of wrath, I suppose then John would be a dispensationalist, wouldn't he?

 

[prophet]

I was just stating the obvious.
But if John were to choose, since the Lord showed him a period of a thousand years of peace and a seven year period of wrath, I suppose then John would be a dispensationalist, wouldn't he?

Still not sure why you think that there are seven years of wrath.

Shew me 7 years.

Shew me Wrath for those 7 years.

The 1,000 years is obvious. Unless God told us that it was a picture, it is literal. His Coming Kingdom, on Earth, with actual lions eating grass along side actual lambs, in the same meadow.

He will reign from Jerusalem, and then there won't be anymore gay pride parades there, like there is now.

 

[convicted1]

Jesus is reigning from above.....and in the hearts of His children. He defeated satan when He sprang forth from the tomb...

 

[DHK]

Still not sure why you think that there are seven years of wrath.

Shew me 7 years.

Shew me Wrath for those 7 years.

The 1,000 years is obvious. Unless God told us that it was a picture, it is literal. His Coming Kingdom, on Earth, with actual lions eating grass along side actual lambs, in the same meadow.

He will reign from Jerusalem, and then there won't be anymore gay pride parades there, like there is now.

Why seven years?

Lev 25:2-10
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.
3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
5 That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
6 And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,
7 And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

Note the order here:
A week of years in verses 2-4. Six years to work the fields, and then one year the field lies fallow.
Now come to verse 7. Seven times seven or 49 years it says. That is a week of years.
After a week of years then there is a year of rest which is the fiftieth year. Not only the 49th year would lie fallow but the 50th year as well. It is called the “Year of Jubilee.”

The Hebrew word for week simply means “seven.” It could be seven days, seven months, or seven years, as it is here.
So it is in Daniel 9
Dan 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There are seventy weeks, weeks of years or 490 years in total.
These are "weeks" or more accurately, sevens of years; seventy weeks of seven years each. The seventy weeks are divided into seven = 49 years; sixty-two = 434 years; one = 7 years (Dan_9:25-27). In the seven weeks = 49 years, Jerusalem was to be rebuilt in "troublous times." This was fulfilled, as Ezra and Nehemiah record. Sixty-two weeks = 434 years, thereafter Messiah was to come (Dan_9:25). This was fulfilled in the birth and manifestation of Christ. (Dan_9:26); (Dan_9:26) The date of the crucifixion is said to be "after" the threescore and two weeks. It is the first event in (Dan_9:26). The second event is the destruction of the city, fulfilled A.D. 70. (a partial fulfillment).
Then, "unto the end," a period not fixed, but which has already lasted over 2000 years. To Daniel was revealed only that wars and desolations should continue (Compare (Mat_24:6-14).
That takes care of 7 weeks plus 62 more which is 69 or 483 years out of the 490 years which is the 70 weeks of Daniel.
The 70th week of Daniel or that last seven years is yet to come.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In verse 26 there was a partial fulfillment in the destruction, but there will yet be a complete fulfillment in the coming Great Tribulation. That Antichrist will confirm a covenant with Israel for one week (seven years) and in the midst of that week (3 ½ years) he will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple. This is verified in Matthew 24 and in the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
42 months = 3 ½ years, half the Tribulation period.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
1,260 days = 3 ½ years, half the Tribulation period.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
42 months = 3 ½ years, half of the Tribulation period.

 

[OldRegular]

I was just stating the obvious.
But if John were to choose, since the Lord showed him a period of a thousand years of peace and a seven year period of wrath, I suppose then John would be a dispensationalist, wouldn't he?

Like John Nelson Darby you have a vivid imagination!

 

[OldRegular]

Why seven years?

Lev 25:2-10
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.
3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
5 That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
6 And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,
7 And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

Note the order here:
A week of years in verses 2-4. Six years to work the fields, and then one year the field lies fallow.
Now come to verse 7. Seven times seven or 49 years it says. That is a week of years.
After a week of years then there is a year of rest which is the fiftieth year. Not only the 49th year would lie fallow but the 50th year as well. It is called the “Year of Jubilee.”

The Hebrew word for week simply means “seven.” It could be seven days, seven months, or seven years, as it is here.
So it is in Daniel 9
Dan 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There are seventy weeks, weeks of years or 490 years in total.
These are "weeks" or more accurately, sevens of years; seventy weeks of seven years each. The seventy weeks are divided into seven = 49 years; sixty-two = 434 years; one = 7 years (Dan_9:25-27). In the seven weeks = 49 years, Jerusalem was to be rebuilt in "troublous times." This was fulfilled, as Ezra and Nehemiah record. Sixty-two weeks = 434 years, thereafter Messiah was to come (Dan_9:25). This was fulfilled in the birth and manifestation of Christ. (Dan_9:26); (Dan_9:26) The date of the crucifixion is said to be "after" the threescore and two weeks. It is the first event in (Dan_9:26). The second event is the destruction of the city, fulfilled A.D. 70. (a partial fulfillment).
Then, "unto the end," a period not fixed, but which has already lasted over 2000 years. To Daniel was revealed only that wars and desolations should continue (Compare (Mat_24:6-14).
That takes care of 7 weeks plus 62 more which is 69 or 483 years out of the 490 years which is the 70 weeks of Daniel.
The 70th week of Daniel or that last seven years is yet to come.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In verse 26 there was a partial fulfillment in the destruction, but there will yet be a complete fulfillment in the coming Great Tribulation. That Antichrist will confirm a covenant with Israel for one week (seven years) and in the midst of that week (3 ½ years) he will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple. This is verified in Matthew 24 and in the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
42 months = 3 ½ years, half the Tribulation period.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
1,260 days = 3 ½ years, half the Tribulation period.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
42 months = 3 ½ years, half of the Tribulation period.

And you have the gall to accuse me of numerology!

No I do not understand. You said:
"The command is worded so as to indicate completeness or perfection."
Hogwash! This is your opinion and you probably got it from someone who delves into numerology.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus is reigning from above.....and in the hearts of His children. He defeated satan when He sprang forth from the tomb...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[convicted1]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Better be careful...you'll be accused of being a cheerleader...

 

[Aaron]

Jesus is reigning from above.....and in the hearts of His children. He defeated satan when He sprang forth from the tomb...

Preach it, Willis!

 

[OldRegular]

The Seventieth Week

Much of the dispensational theology of the ‘end times’ is based on faulty exegesis of this vision of the prophet Daniel, particularly Daniel 9:26-27. There are some who refer to the period of time discussed in the entire vision as Israel's ‘prophetic destiny’.

Daniel 9:26,27, KJV
26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

From this passage we see that the Messiah, Jesus Christ was ‘cut off’, killed, sometime after the end of the 69th week; actually after His ministry of about three and one half years when he confirmed {cause to prevail} the New Covenant through His sacrificial death. Because of His sacrificial death the Temple sacrifices were no longer necessary, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, and I believe the continuation of animal sacrifices in the Temple were an abomination

There is absolutely no basis in the text of the passage to indicate a delay in the start of the seventieth week until some time in the far distant future, 2000 years and counting. That is a fiction of dispensational doctrine. But, they add a thousand years between the resurrection of the just and the unjust {John 5:28, 29}. We know from Scripture that the Messiah, Jesus, was killed, not for himself, but for the sins of those chosen in Him from the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1: 4]. Thus the Covenant has already been instituted by the shed blood of Jesus the Messiah. Sometime after the death of the Messiah the city and sanctuary were to be destroyed by a people belonging to an unnamed prince. The armies of Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

 

[DHK]

The Seventieth Week

Much of the dispensational theology of the ‘end times’ is based on faulty exegesis of this vision of the prophet Daniel, particularly Daniel 9:26-27. There are some who refer to the period of time discussed in the entire vision as Israel's ‘prophetic destiny’.

Daniel 9:26,27, KJV
26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

From this passage we see that the Messiah, Jesus Christ was ‘cut off’, killed, sometime after the end of the 69th week; actually after His ministry of about three and one half years when he confirmed {cause to prevail} the New Covenant through His sacrificial death. Because of His sacrificial death the Temple sacrifices were no longer necessary, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, and I believe the continuation of animal sacrifices in the Temple were an abomination

Christ was "cut off" at the crucifixion. Now there is one week left, or seven years. Half way through that seven years the Antichrist will desecrate the temple. At the beginning of that seven year period he will make a covenant with Israel. When, OR, did those things happen?

There is absolutely no basis in the text of the passage to indicate a delay in the start of the seventieth week until some time in the far distant future, 2000 years and counting. That is a fiction of dispensational doctrine.

You can believe what you want. But it is your dreams vs. dispensational truth. Prove from history that these events have already happened. Prove from history that the events described in Rev.6-19 have already happened (the 70th week). Does history record a hailstorm, for example, with hailstones each weight a hundred pounds? Rev.16:21 does.

We know from Scripture that the Messiah, Jesus, was killed, not for himself, but for the sins of those chosen in Him from the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1: 4]. Thus the Covenant has already been instituted by the shed blood of Jesus the Messiah. Sometime after the death of the Messiah the city and sanctuary were to be destroyed by a people belonging to an unnamed prince. The armies of Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

That part is true.
But Titus never made a covenant with Israel for one week or seven years.
Titus never desecrated the Temple exactly 3 1/2 years into that seven year period.
Titus simply went in 70 A.D., and in that one year razed the city and the Temple. It didn't take seven years. Thus it wasn't a complete fulfillment of the prophecy. It doesn't account for all that is written there.

 

[DHK]

And you have the gall to accuse me of numerology!
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

What numerology? I gave you the numbers in the scripture, or the passages where they are used and often overlooked and expounded them. These are what you often over-look.
The question was asked: Where do you get seven years?
The question was about a number!!