Who Has Part in The First Resurrection?

[prophet]

A wonderful picture of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end of time, or the end of the world, as mortals know it.

You mean this day?

2Pe 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I don't know how any one can think that this will go unnoticed, or that the 'thief in the night' reference doesn't tie the Thesalonian account to the end of the Trib.

 

[DHK]

You skipped the timetable, in Matthew 24, so I'll help out, cuz I'm a good guy like that.

Mat 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It was an answer to this prayer:

Mat 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


Praise God for answered prayer!!!

I pray that God opens the eyes of the deceived.

It is evident that Matthew 24 is not chronological.
But here is a passage that is:

Act 1:6-9
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Right before He ascended into heaven Jesus told his disciples two things.
1. It was not for them to know about the time of the kingdom, and they shouldn't be concerned about it.
2. Their business was carrying out the Great Commission, not worrying about the kingdom.

The kingdom never came. It was offered and rejected. It still hasn't come. Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the throne, not ruling, but rather interceding for us. That is not reigning. He has yet to come to earth and reign.
Obviously there is nothing but chaotic sin in this evil world where Satan, the god of this world has full reign. We wait for the coming of our Lord. He is our blessed hope. We still await His Coming. Those who are not awaiting his coming are indeed deceived.

 

[prophet]

It is evident that Matthew 24 is not chronological.
But here is a passage that is:

Act 1:6-9
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Right before He ascended into heaven Jesus told his disciples two things.
1. It was not for them to know about the time of the kingdom, and they shouldn't be concerned about it.
2. Their business was carrying out the Great Commission, not worrying about the kingdom.

The kingdom never came. It was offered and rejected. It still hasn't come. Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the throne, not ruling, but rather interceding for us. That is not reigning. He has yet to come to earth and reign.
Obviously there is nothing but chaotic sin in this evil world where Satan, the god of this world has full reign. We wait for the coming of our Lord. He is our blessed hope. We still await His Coming. Those who are not awaiting his coming are indeed deceived.

The word "after", followed by an event, and preceded by one, establishes a timetable by default.

Try Remedial English.

 

[DHK]

The word "after", followed by an event, and preceded by one, establishes a timetable by default.

Try Remedial English.

I don't need remedial English. What you need is to stop contradicting the Bible, and allow the Bible speak for itself. One cannot have one part of the Bible saying one thing and another part of the Bible saying the opposite as you do. You can't harmonize it.

 

[salzer mtn]

It is evident that Matthew 24 is not chronological.
But here is a passage that is:

Act 1:6-9
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Right before He ascended into heaven Jesus told his disciples two things.
1. It was not for them to know about the time of the kingdom, and they shouldn't be concerned about it.
2. Their business was carrying out the Great Commission, not worrying about the kingdom.

The kingdom never came. It was offered and rejected. It still hasn't come. Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the throne, not ruling, but rather interceding for us. That is not reigning. He has yet to come to earth and reign.
Obviously there is nothing but chaotic sin in this evil world where Satan, the god of this world has full reign. We wait for the coming of our Lord. He is our blessed hope. We still await His Coming. Those who are not awaiting his coming are indeed deceived.

I have a question, if Satan has full reign over this world wouldn't he cause so much chaos by his earth quakes and other natural disasters or pestilence or diseases that it would destroy mankind ? Also if there is nothing but chaotic sin he would put it in the hearts of evil people to kill everyone they came into contact with.

 

[DHK]

I have a question, if Satan has full reign over this world wouldn't he cause so much chaos by his earth quakes and other natural disasters or pestilence or diseases that it would destroy mankind ? Also if there is nothing but chaotic sin he would put it in the hearts of evil people to kill everyone they came into contact with.

Satan doesn't want to kill man. He wants to lead an army in rebellion against God. He is still so deceived that he believes he can overcome God. He wants control of your mind. That is why speaking in tongues (today's modern version) is so dangerous. You are told to empty your mind. With an empty mind anything including Satan's demons can enter in, and in many cases do.

Put on the whole armor of God that you may fight against the wiles of the devil. It is a battle that we are in.

Natural catastrophes are of God. They are sent for his own purposes--both to the saved and the unsaved alike. Perhaps that the unsaved may repent, and that the saved may grow in grace or be chastised and disciplined. We don't know. His ways are higher than our ways. A finite mind cannot understand an infinite God. We only commit ourselves to Him knowing that our lives are in His hands.

 

[salzer mtn]

That sounds like the typical answer of an unsaved person (not making accusation, just saying)

God isn't reigning because if he were he wouldn't have allowed Adam and Eve to sin.
God isn't reigning because if he were he wouldn't have allowed all this sin, and all these tornadoes to have hit our nation.
God isn't reigning because if he were we would not be suffering so many diseases by his own creation (there are more deaths worldwide caused by mosquitoes then by any other animal).
His own creation causes millions of deaths, therefore by default God is not reigning is he?

I see you have changed your mind on who is ruling the tornadoes.

 

[DHK]

I see you have changed your mind on who is ruling the tornadoes.

(ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

As someone else pointed out God has power over the earth. But Christ does not rule over the earth or on the earth yet. Satan does not create a tornado, but the Lord causes them.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[salzer mtn]

Satan doesn't want to kill man. He wants to lead an army in rebellion against God. He is still so deceived that he believes he can overcome God. He wants control of your mind. That is why speaking in tongues (today's modern version) is so dangerous. You are told to empty your mind. With an empty mind anything including Satan's demons can enter in, and in many cases do.

Put on the whole armor of God that you may fight against the wiles of the devil. It is a battle that we are in.

Natural catastrophes are of God. They are sent for his own purposes--both to the saved and the unsaved alike. Perhaps that the unsaved may repent, and that the saved may grow in grace or be chastised and disciplined. We don't know. His ways are higher than our ways. A finite mind cannot understand an infinite God. We only commit ourselves to Him knowing that our lives are in His hands.

I disagree with you about Satan doesn't want to kill man, the scripture say's, St. John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but to steal and to kill and to destroy. If Satan ruled the world he would kill every lost person on earth and take them to hell.

 

[DHK]

I disagree with you about Satan doesn't want to kill man, the scripture say's, St. John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but to steal and to kill and to destroy. If Satan ruled the world he would kill every lost person on earth and take them to hell.

He is smarter than that. He influenced the Pharisees to kill Christ (not realizing that Christ would have the victory). He influenced them to persecute Christians so that they could not win others. He sends persecutions on Christians with those he influences.
Islam is one of the most Satanic religions ever inspired. Look at the damage it is causing in the world. Satan gladly reproduces more Muslims to inflict more damage against God and Christianity. Why is it that no one would dare take the name of "Mohammed" in vain, but every day the name of "Jesus Christ" is taken in vain, and often without even thinking about it?

 

[prophet]

I don't need remedial English. What you need is to stop contradicting the Bible, and allow the Bible speak for itself. One cannot have one part of the Bible saying one thing and another part of the Bible saying the opposite as you do. You can't harmonize it.

Show me one post of mine, that "contradicts the Bible".

I give you fair warning, if you answer with nonscriptural terms, I will call you on it.

 

[DHK]

Show me one post of mine, that "contradicts the Bible".

I give you fair warning, if you answer with nonscriptural terms, I will call you on it.

Yes, trinity and rapture are both nonscriptural, right?

 

[prophet]

Yes, trinity and rapture are both nonscriptural, right?

Exactly. They can be stretched around the corner and down the street, because they can't be confined to Scriptural context.

So, charging me with contradicting Scripture, because I don't like the word "rapture", is off limits.

 

[OldRegular]

You mean this day?

2Pe 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I don't know how any one can think that this will go unnoticed, or that the 'thief in the night' reference doesn't tie the Thesalonian account to the end of the Trib.

There are none so blind as those who will not see!

 

[DHK]

Exactly. They can be stretched around the corner and down the street, because they can't be confined to Scriptural context.

So, charging me with contradicting Scripture, because I don't like the word "rapture", is off limits.

A.T. Robertson from the Greek on 1Thes.4:17:

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then (epeita). The next step, not the identical time (tote), but immediately afterwards.

Together with them (hama sun autois). Note both hama (at the same time) and sun (together with) with the associative instrumental case autois (the risen saints).

Shall be caught up (harpagēsometha). Second future passive indicative of harpazō, old verb to seize, to carry off like Latin rapio.

To meet the Lord in the air (eis apantēsin tou Kuriou eis aera). This special Greek idiom is common in the lxx like the Hebrew, but Polybius has it also and it occurs in the papyri (Moulton, Proleg., p. 14, n. 3). This rapture of the saints (both risen and changed) is a glorious climax to Paul’s argument of consolation.

And so (kai houtōs). This is the outcome, to be forever with the Lord, whether with a return to earth or with an immediate departure for heaven Paul does not say. To be with Christ is the chief hope of Paul’s life (1Th_5:10; Phi_1:23; Col_3:4; 2Co_5:8).

 

[DHK]

Exactly. They can be stretched around the corner and down the street, because they can't be confined to Scriptural context.

So, charging me with contradicting Scripture, because I don't like the word "rapture", is off limits.

You don't like the word "trinity" either?
Or, if you don't believe the rapture you don't believe the trinity?
Or, if you do believe the trinity, you do believe the rapture?

Or don't you also believe in Christology, theology, Pneumatology, etc.
Are there any Christophanies in the Bible? But wait, that is not a "Scriptural" word either!

 

[prophet]

Rapio: Synonym for pillage, drag off, etc.
As always it is an act of aggression, against an enemy or victim.

We are not God's enemies.

We are not God's victims.

We are called out, invited, by our groom.
He isn't kidnapping us.

Who cares what Robertson said?

 

[prophet]

You don't like the word "trinity" either?
Or, if you don't believe the rapture you don't believe the trinity?
Or, if you do believe the trinity, you do believe the rapture?

Or don't you also believe in Christology, theology, Pneumatology, etc.
Are there any Christophanies in the Bible? But wait, that is not a "Scriptural" word either!

Exactly, now you are on to something.

 

[DHK]

Rapio: Synonym for pillage, drag off, etc.
As always it is an act of aggression, against an enemy or victim.

We are not God's enemies.

We are not God's victims.

We are called out, invited, by our groom.
He isn't kidnapping us.

Who cares what Robertson said?

Robertson is a Greek scholar. Are you?
Where do you get this "rapio" from?

Please point it out to me:
1 Thessalonians 4:16 οτι αυτος ο κυριος εν κελευσματι εν φωνη αρχαγγελου και εν σαλπιγγι θεου καταβησεται απ ουρανου και οι νεκροι εν χριστω αναστησονται πρωτον
1 Thessalonians 4:17 επειτα ημεις οι ζωντες οι περιλειπομενοι αμα συν αυτοις αρπαγησομεθα εν νεφελαις εις απαντησιν του κυριου εις αερα και ουτως παντοτε συν κυριω εσομεθα
1 Thessalonians 4:18 ωστε παρακαλειτε αλληλους εν τοις λογοις τουτοις

 

[OldRegular]

I have a question, if Satan has full reign over this world wouldn't he cause so much chaos by his earth quakes and other natural disasters or pestilence or diseases that it would destroy mankind ? Also if there is nothing but chaotic sin he would put it in the hearts of evil people to kill everyone they came into contact with.

Satan has only the power that God allows him to have. Believing that God is not Sovereign over His Creation is a pathetic understanding of God.