Who here thinks babies go to heaven ?

[Travelsong]

This is a tough one because it goes back to original sin and reconciling God's full sovereignty with man's accountability. I've never seen a totally perfect explanation and I doubt I ever will in this life. I can't see the sin nature residing exclusively in the spirit or the flesh. The former implies that God creates condemned and disobedient souls, the latter negates the need for spiritual life. Our salvation was dependant upon Jesus taking the form of both spirit and flesh.

 

[RightFromWrong]

May be tought for you, but not for most people saved or unsaved. God is a Loving God who wouldn't send innocent souls to Hell.

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
1) David said he would see his son again, obviously he meant Heaven.

That's not what he said. He said, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

2) Jesus said hinder NOT the children they BELONG to me. He didn't say that about adults.

He didn't say that either. He said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."

Adults are indeed included in the phrase "of such is the kindgom of God."

He also said, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

3) We are born with a sinful CONDITION that can only be Changed by Gods spirit. And the ONLY way that is done is. Mark 3:28-29 Through accepting the gospel. Babies and mentally handicaped people CANNOT do that. So their sin is automatically forgiven.

4) When the disobedient Hebrews refused to cross over into the holy land, a TYPE OF HEAVEN, God condemned them all to die, except: “Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it” Deuteronomy 1:39. So here God himself says that there is an age before a person has knowledge of right from wrong. This is the age of accountability. Quote from One Of His Sheep

So the age of accountability is 21? Not even the Jews saw this passage as some kind of age of accountability teaching, making, as they did, the age of adulthood 13.

Correction, they did not refuse to enter in, it was impossible for them to enter in because of their unbelief.

5)A loving God would NOT send innocent babies and retarded people to HELL !

Where does it say that in the Bible? But you yourself said that babies aren't innocent. They are born condemned because they have the sin nature.

No wait, they're born saved because they have God's Spirit, which, as you stated, is the only way to overcome the sin nature.

No wait, they're not born saved...

But if they're not born saved, they must be born condemned, unless they need no salvation, and are born with spiritual life already. But you already stated that wasn't true.

Do you really know what you're talking about, or is this just a bunch of wishful thinking on your part?

 

[RightFromWrong]

You know Aaron the only time I see you write is when you want to argue with me. Don't you have other valid points to make on other threads, that I am not on. I have been keenly aware of who the troublemakers are. It seems it is a few legalist who like to go around and argue with people just to get a reaction and you my friend are one of them. Whats wrong can't handle a woman who might just know something ?

You and Craig ( who knows you guys maybe the same person ) are the main ones who do not think Babies go to Heaven. Most people DO maybe if you guys were women and had lost a child, you'd think differently ?

Bet you guys are going to be way surprised IF you go to Heaven how many babies will be there.

 

[Aaron]

Which being interpreted meaneth, "No I really don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm really ticked off that you pointed out my contradictions, my misreading of the Scriptures and my wishful thinking."

 

[RightFromWrong]

quote: ONE OF HIS SHEEP
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If the Bible says that everyone must believe in Jesus in order to go to heaven, then how can babies go to heaven when they are too young to believe in Jesus? In order to answer this question, let's think about why we must believe in Jesus for salvation. Remember, Jesus died on the cross in order to atone for our sins, and when we put our faith in Jesus as our living Lord and Savior then our sins are wiped from our record. In other words, we need to believe in Jesus because God is holding us accountable for our sins. If we don't put our faith in Jesus then our sins (our sin nature) will send us to hell. But according to the above verses God does not appear to hold infants and young children accountable for sin. Therefore, since infants and young children have no sins on their record (because God is not holding them accountable), then they do not need to believe in Jesus in order to wipe their slates clean. Their slates are already clean until they reach an "age of accountability."
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MARK 3:28-29 says " Truly I say to you ALL SINS will be forgiven of man and whatever blasphemies they utter; BUT whoever blasphemes AGAINST the Holy Spirit NEVER has forgiveness, but is guilty of an ETERNAL SIN !

Babies cannot blasphemy against the gospel. I don't know about you but I have never known a baby in the womb or a very young one who understood the human language, so how can he reject something he has never heard ? It is when a child hears the Gospel ( at whatever age that may be, my sons were 4 and 6 when they were saved ) and if he UNDERSTANDS the gospel and rejects it then he is held accountable.
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[RightFromWrong]

MATT. 7:6

Do not give what is Holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, least they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

AMEN

 

[Aaron]

You're the one that resorted to personal attacks. I'm just trying to get a solid answer from you.

If babies aren't born saved, then in what condition are they born?

 

[Johnv]

Babies aren't born saved. However, babies are saved upon death, as is any person who in his/her life was not provided with the opportunity to reject the gift of salvation. This is, however, strictly my opinion. I can find no scripture that directly affirms or denies it.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Aaron I have answered you a hundred times you just do not want to accept my answer, like someone else I know. You are a troublemake so go away !

Don't bother John Aaron just wants to argue

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Babies aren't born saved. However, babies are saved upon death, as is any person who in his/her life was not provided with the opportunity to reject the gift of salvation. This is, however, strictly my opinion. I can find no scripture that directly affirms or denies it.

Now there's a straight and honest answer. Why couldn't you do that, RFW?

 

[RightFromWrong]

I said the same thing in many different ways on many different posts even on other threads, with scripture to boot. As a woman you will not take anything I say as truth so what does it matter? Again you are a troublemaker

 

[Aaron]

You didn't say it was strictly your opinion. You presented as dogma.

Anyway, now that you've conceded that this is simply your opinion, there's nothing more to say.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Aaron:
Poster to Aaron - By the way Aaron Jesus SAVED us from HELL.

Oops!

Matthew 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

This one little verse from the first chapter of the first Gospel has undone everything you've said in this thread. It tells who the beneficiaries of God's grace are, His people, His elect, and what He saves them from, their sins.

People go to hell because of their sins. You'll have to find some other premise upon which to base your notion of the universal atonement of all infants and imbeciles.

Amen Aaron. Agree with you here, but I may be putting words into your mouth, as you posssibly do not agree completely with what follows. These tidbits of information are just a little out of reach for so many Christians. They seem to think they have always been God’s children.

It is very hard to accept that Jesus didn’t come for them (we heathen)the first time, and is frightening to believe that they have been told all their lives, and taught we are somehow attached to those in other dispensations. But the tradition of man always holds sway over the majority. It scared me almost to death when I was allowed to see this. Our salvation becomes so much more real and amazing for He didn’t have to include us (me), but He did. It simply knocks you to your knees when He says to us, “by the Grace of My Father He NOW allows you to come to Him through me”.

If He had not spoken from heaven telling the Gentiles they could Now Come Through Him to the Father for their salvation we would be headed for the lake of fire, or be servants to the Jew forever, while they served their God. Of course we do know however this was always in the plan of God to include us, but NNE knew this before Damascus Road. It was an impossibility, but it seems almost all just will not completely accept His gospel to Paul.

As for the “infants”, of which we all are. God knows His own and those that will be His, for He chooses. And who does He choose but those that come to Him (Nathaniel –John 1:47) because He knows them; or those He draws and they follow Him – John 1:37. Christian faith, ituttut.

[ September 12, 2005, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: ituttut ]

 

[RightFromWrong]

As far as I'm concern it's a dogmatic thing for me and probably 90% of other Christians as well

 

[Marcia]

I don't think the sin nature is in the blood. Where do you get that from, RFW?

The sin nature is the tendency to sin and is inherent in our very being -- mind, flesh, spirit, emotions. We have a bent toward sin - that is the sin nature. It has nothing to do with blood.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Babies aren't born saved. However, babies are saved upon death, as is any person who in his/her life was not provided with the opportunity to reject the gift of salvation. This is, however, strictly my opinion. I can find no scripture that directly affirms or denies it.

JohnV, your statement is partly what I was thinking of when I started the thread on Jesus as the only way.

Do you believe Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. who do not hear the gospel will go to heaven?

 

[RightFromWrong]

If it's not in the blood ( which I will find you proof in a moment) then WHY DID JESUS HAVE to be born of the Holy Spirit and he NEVER SINNED !

This is a scientific fact I will show you.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
JohnV, your statement is partly what I was thinking of when I started the thread on Jesus as the only way.

Do you believe Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. who do not hear the gospel will go to heaven?

If a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc, has never been presented with an opportunity to reject Christ's gift of salvation, then their fate is the same as babies. If a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc, has been presented with an opportunity to reject the gife of salvation, then they will not be saved. Again, this is strictly my opinion. I can find no scripture that directly affirms or denies it.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Marcia you don't get it of course LITTLE Moslim, Hindu, Athiest, Buddhist go to heaven.

as far as Adults

ROMANS chapter 1 is very clear that ALL mankind knows about God by the evidence in creation, so they ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE. Romans 1:18-32

If some is truly seeking to know God he will reveal himself to him.