Who Is Drawn by the Father?

[SovereignGrace]

But hell enlarges its border daily...<snip>

Book, chapter, and verse please.

 

[SovereignGrace]

We go with the text. You can't say he didn't come to Christ. We don't know.

We can never make an argument from what the bible does not say my friend. He may have, he may not have. But we don't know and can not make a logical argument one way or the other, as the bible never speaks about him again. I have heard ppl say that was him in Luke 16, but I ain't buying it. We just don't know his eternal state.

 

[utilyan]

Sorry, it is late and I already wasted too much time on a video hatchet job of exegesis.

Those God draws, Jesus raises.

Until you really grasp the subjects and verbs of the sentence, the rest is just dross.

Have fun, but you have nothing to teach worth learning.

Show scripture that teaches that.

We see those that DO COME Jesus will raise. And only those who are drawn by the father are ABLE TO come.

You have to let the scripture speak itself not read in our own ideas.

 

[Rockson]

Don't even act like you don't know what we are talking about. You have been in these conversations as well for days. You just won't answer because you know your logic will be torn to shreds. Glad I made your signature by the way. At least you post some truth.

You were talking to another here David but just because someone tears something up doesn't mean they were justified to do it.

 

[atpollard]

Show scripture that teaches that.

We see those that DO COME Jesus will raise. And only those who are drawn by the father are ABLE TO come.

You have to let the scripture speak itself not read in our own ideas.

Context.

 

[Reynolds]

We can never make an argument from what the bible does not say my friend. He may have, he may not have. But we don't know and can not make a logical argument one way or the other, as the bible never speaks about him again. I have heard ppl say that was him in Luke 16, but I ain't buying it. We just don't know his eternal state.

I am not making an argument. It was said he did not come to Christ. My response was that we do not know whether he did or didn't. All we know is he did not surrender on that day.

 

[Rockson]

I am going with his spiritual condition at the time.

Yes you can learn a lesson from his spiritual condition at the time. But you can't build doctrines stating it's a given he never became saved. Not a lesson you can lift from the text.

 

[MB]

There is a common drawing that occurs when the Gospel is proclaimed. The young ruler who lived the riches of this world esteemed the gospel that Jesus preached of value only to the extent that it would fit within his moralistic worldview. However, he was quite unwilling (and unable) to truly follow Christ because he was not effectually called. The effectual call is the work of the Holy Spirit whereby He brings the Elect to the place where they both hear and believe the Gospel.

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I wonder where you got the idea of a common drawing. If a man is drawn he has a choice to make and the rich man made his choice.
MB

 

[Reformed]

I wonder where you got the idea of a common drawing. If a man is drawn he has a choice to make and the rich man made his choice.
MB

Matthew 13 and the parable of the sower. Some people welcome the gospel for other than pure motives. They view it as good moralistic teaching. They add it to their other religious beliefs (pluralism). The bottom line is that they do not believe by faith because it has not been granted to them by the Father.

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[MB]

Are all men drawn? Are only some men drawn? Who is drawn? I have seen some people say literally the following two things:

1. All are drawn.
2. Not all are drawn but all saved were drawn but not all drawn were saved.

Which is it? You cannot have it both ways!

The biblical answer is that:

1. Not all are drawn.
2. All that are drawn by the Father are saved.

I've already proven that Christ said;
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
If the Bible is true and it is then how is it you can deny it? The Bible never says that all who are drawn are saved. I don't know where you got this notion from.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

I've already proven that Christ said;
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
If the Bible is true and it is then how is it you can deny it? The Bible never says that all who are drawn are saved. I don't know where you got this notion from.
MB

All you have proven is that you take John 12:32 out of context. When called on it, you double down and say only two words provide the context which is just ignorant.

 

[MB]

Matthew 13 and the parable of the sower. Some people welcome the gospel for other than pure motives. They view it as good moralistic teaching. They add it to their other religious beliefs (pluralism). The bottom line is that they do not believe by faith because it has not been granted to them by the Father.

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Then why would the sower sow good seed when the seed is the word of God and the Bible says.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

IOW's God's word does not return void. That means it is always effectual. Even those who use it for other than pure motives are effected by it.They can't help but be effected by it. The Bible for me has always had a way of getting down inside of me ever since I memorized my first verse. I even find myself quoting scripture that I never memorized. It seems almost mystical that everyone who hears the name Jesus remembers it. Even those who reject Him
There is nothing that isn't effectual about scripture and it always effect's the person the way God wants it to.
MB

 

[Jesus Saves!]

Book, chapter, and verse please.

Isaiah 5:14 KJVS
[14] Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Isaiah 14:9 KJVS
[9] Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

 

[Jesus Saves!]

Those who die without the blood of Christ go to hell. A place that wasn't prepared for them.

 

[Reformed]

The seed (the Gospel) is always good. I do not think anyone disputes that. I believe you misunderstand the doctrine of effectual calling. The Gospel is only effectual (accomplishing salvation) for the Elect (Acts 13:48). Can those that are not elect benefit from the Gospel. Certainly. I already gave examples of that. The reprobate that are members of Bible believing churches benefit from the love and kindness of God's people. However, such benefits are temporal.



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[loDebar]

All of it.

Show the verses that you claim in the OP support your position.

That is how it works, claim it, be able to name it

 

[MB]

Jn 12:32 still says all men are drawn but your so sure of your self you can't see it.What is ignorant Is reading from scripture and still denying the truth of scripture. If you want context read it in the Bible for your self just like I do.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

You still are denying God's word and what it says. Jn 12:32 still says all men are drawn but your so sure of your self you can't see it.What is ignorant Is reading from scripture and still denying the truth of scripture. If you want context read it in the Bible for your self just like I do.
MB

I'm not denying anything. I am actually reading it in context. Something you refuse to do.

 

[robycop3]

No one - NNE - is born with no chance for salvation, automatically predestined to hell!

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for **ANY** to perish but for all to come to repentance.

 

[Reformed1689]

No one - NNE - is born with no chance for salvation, automatically predestined to hell!

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for **ANY** to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Any of the elect. Context matters.