Who Is Jesus?

[atestring]

I have to agree God is not a person He is God.
We are persons and we are in a different class than God even though we are made in the image of God.

 

[Bro Tony]

Mee,

You are certainly free to believe anything you wish. I am not upset with you personally. I think you are wrong and do not hold an orthodox view of God. This is a debate forum and I find the oneness doctrine heretical and debatable. As far as having a problem, my only problem is I desire for all to experience the faith given in the Scripture, sadly I know that will not be true. If you don't want to deal with it that's fine, I just asked the question.

BTW--Would you look at Isaiah 48: 15-16 and tell me who is who in the passage?

Bro Tony

Atestring--to say that the Father, Son & Holy Spirit are the three Persons of the Trinity is not to call them people like us.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Michael52:
Word
Creator
Light
Son of Man
God, God with us
Son of God
Life
Savoir
Alpha and Omega

- And more

All true.

The Way, The Truth, the Life John 14.

In 2Thess 2 we find the warning to those who "perish because they did not receive a love of the Truth".

But when you consider that Christ IS the Truth - how devastating it is not to "receive a love of the Truth".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by atestring:
I have to agree God is not a person He is God.
We are persons and we are in a different class than God even though we are made in the image of God.

I do not agree.

I believe God is a Person. The fact that He is infinite, all-powerful, all-knowing and eternal does not change that He is a person, that He has feelings, intelligence, emotions, concern etc.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Tony what is your problem? What does it matter if I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being "One God" and not three persons? I don't use the word 'persons' because the Bible states that God is made up of "Three manifestations," which is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost..and these three are ONE!

In John 17 Christ said that we are to be ONE as He is ONE with the Father. The concept of ONE for the Godhead is never "ONE PERSON". It is a statement of unity - not personhood.

We know this because we see them talk to each other, we see Christ at the right hand of the Father, we see Christ saying the Father is greater than He is and we see Christ saying HE does not KNOW the time of the 2nd coming - but the Father ALONE.

In many many references - it is clear that there are 3 PERSONS in the Godhead and that they are ONE in purpose, fully united and therefore ONE God.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Bro Tony]

In many many references - it is clear that there are 3 PERSONS in the Godhead and that they are ONE in purpose, fully united and therefore ONE God.

Amen, Bob!

And our finite minds cannot comprehend this infinite truth. I am grateful to God that He has chosen to reveal Himself and His truth to we mortal, limited people.

Bro Tony

 

[HisMercy]

MEE,

You are correct. Don't let those who jump to judgment and label you something keep you from speaking.

John3v36,

Yes Jesus is "The everlasting Father." Are their 2 Fathers in the Godhead?

B. Tony,

Show me where someone in this topic has denied that Jesus is God.... I don't see it. Jesus is God. I asked the question, Who is God? The reference of 1Cor. 8:6 was given that defines the one God as Father. Jesus is God in the flesh. Be cautious before labeling someone JW.

Michael52,

The bible says there is but one God, the Father.

 

[HankD]

There are many anti-Trinitarian groups today that object to the doctrine of the Trinity because it was officially formulated late in the fourth century by men that were less than perfect. The lateness of the doctrine, and the errors of the men who grappled with the issues surrounding it, are often brought up in an attempt to discredit the doctrine.
Despite these charges by non-Trinitarians, many of them fail to realize that it was Trinitarians who were also responsible for organizing the New Testament Canon of Scripture. Around the same time that Church leaders were grappling with issues concerning the Trinity, in the fourth century, they were also in the process of formulating the New Testament Canon of Scripture. God used Trinitarians, such as Athanasius, to formulate the 27 books of the New Testament as we have it today.* So the very Bible’s that Bible confessing anti-Trinitarian groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Unitarians, Mormons, Christadelphians, the Way International, and Oneness groups, use and refer to, contains a Canon that was formulated by the same people who formulated the Trinity in the fourth century! If Jehovah’s Witnesses have the true doctrine of God, then why did God use Trinitarians for the job of formulating the canon rather than others who were closer in doctrine to Jehovah's Witnesses, such as Arius of Alexandria? If Oneness Pentecostals have the true doctrine of God then why did God use Trinitarians for the job of formulating the Canon rather than others who were closer in doctrine to Oneness believers, such as those who held to the teaching of Sabellius.
Non-Trinitarians such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians, and many others, have to face up to the fact that God saw fit to use Trinitarians to organize His holy word. If those who believe in the Trinity are part of "Satan’s Organization" "worldly" and "apostate" (words often used by non-Trinitarians against Trinitarians), then why did God use them for such a high and holy task? Could it be that He used them because, the reality is that they are not part of "Satan’s Organization" "worldly" and "apostate", but rather God's true believers? Who else would God entrust with organizing and handling His Word in this way other than His own people?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Athanasius of Alexandria (born 293 CE, died May 2 373 CE) - Prominent Trinitarian defender in the early Church.

The 39th Festal Letter of Athanasius (367 CE):

"Continuing, I must without hesitation mention the scriptures of the New Testament; they are the following: the four Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, after them the Acts of the Apostles and the seven so-called catholic epistles of the apostles -- namely, one of James, two of Peter, then three of John and after these one of Jude. In addition there are fourteen epistles of the apostle Paul written in the following order: the first to the Romans, then two to the Corinthians and then after these the one to the Galatians, following it the one to the Ephesians, thereafter the one to the Philippians and the one to the Colossians and two to the Thessalonians and the epistle to the Hebrews and then immediately two to Timothy , one to Titus and lastly the one to Philemon. Yet further the Revelation of John These are the springs of salvation, in order that he who is thirsty may fully refresh himself with the words contained in them. In them alone is the doctrine of piety proclaimed. Let no one add anything to them or take anything away from them..."

</font>[/QUOTE]Found in the public domain at: http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/trinandcan.htm

HankD

 

[MEE]

HankD, are you a little branch off from the Catholic Church? Do you go by 'all' of the books that the CC put together? I doubt it!

Just because the CC organized "The Book" doesn't mean salvation. It only means that the put it together...that's all!

It doesn't matter if the RCC had anything to do with organizing the NT Canon, 'THEY *DIDN'T* WRITE THE BOOK!' They tried to kill off most of the Oneness believers during the time of the early church, in an attempt to protect the doctrine of the Trinity, but they didn't succeed in killing God's Church.


Matt.16
18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Since I'm not allowed to post links on this Other Religions/Doctrine debate forum, do some church history research and see for yourself!

MEE

 

[HankD]

HankD, are you a little branch off from the Catholic Church? Do you go by 'all' of the books that the CC put together? I doubt it!

No, I'm a Christian first and a Baptist next. I am a former Catholic. I posted the info to show everyone that determining who is right and who is wrong is not always a clear cut thing.

There was a time when Arian and Trinitarian Christians went to church together without trying to kill one another.

HankD

 

[Bro Tony]

Show me where someone in this topic has denied that Jesus is God.... I don't see it. Jesus is God. I asked the question, Who is God? The reference of 1Cor. 8:6 was given that defines the one God as Father. Jesus is God in the flesh. Be cautious before labeling someone JW.

Michael52,

The bible says there is but one God, the Father.

Michael are you denying the doctrine of the Trinity? If so I would ask you as I did Mee to read Isaiah 48: 15-16 and tell me who is who in this passage.

As you have stated you do not deny that Jesus is God, neither do I, but your apparent oneness theology runs contrary to Scripture.

Bro Tony

 

[HisMercy]

Bro Tony,

Of course it is God who is speaking in Isaiah 48:15-16. I realize you will say it is Jesus who is speaking. Why is this scripture in the red letter editions not in red letters according to your understanding of this scripture?

The one God is the only speaker throughout the old and new testaments.

Tell me who is speaking in Isaiah 43:11?

 

[Bro Tony]

Why is this scripture in the red letter editions not in red letters according to your understanding of this scripture?

Are you serious? You can't be? You only know it is Jesus speaking when the letters are red?

Do you deny the pre-incarnate Christ? Do you deny The Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is the pre-incarnate Christ? Remember He allowed people to worship Him. No angel would allow that.

Now to Isaiah 48 15-16, I did not ask you to tell who was speaking, I ask you to identify who is who? Of course you cannot do that because the answer would destroy your oneness theology. Read it again and tell me who is who, if you dare.

As to your question in Isaiah 43:11-- Who is speaking? It is the same one who is speaking in the rest of the chapter. It is the Saviour, it is the Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, the Creator, it is the King of Israel, it is God. He is called Lord, Messiah, Christ and His name is Jesus.

Bro Tony

 

[dean198]

It seems that some on here hold to oneness doctrine. Jesus is not the "everlasting father." Young's Literal renders the Hebrew literally into English as "father of eternity." This is totally different. Jesus is the Son of God, it is that simple. God sent His Son, He didn't send himself.
Dean

 

[dean198]

Show me where someone in this topic has denied that Jesus is God.... I don't see it. Jesus is God. I asked the question, Who is God? The reference of 1Cor. 8:6 was given that defines the one God as Father. Jesus is God in the flesh. Be cautious before labeling someone JW.

Michael52,

The bible says there is but one God, the Father.

Paul DOES indeed say, that there is one God, the Father. Jesus in turn is called the Son of God. What is the problem, and if there is a problem, how do you account for Paul's words?

Dean

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by dean198:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Show me where someone in this topic has denied that Jesus is God.... I don't see it. Jesus is God. I asked the question, Who is God? The reference of 1Cor. 8:6 was given that defines the one God as Father. Jesus is God in the flesh. Be cautious before labeling someone JW.

Paul DOES indeed say, that there is one God, the Father. Jesus in turn is called the Son of God. What is the problem, and if there is a problem, how do you account for Paul's words?

Dean </font>[/QUOTE]Dean, there is no problem. It's just that some seem to think that the Son/Jesus is the "second person" in a Trinity. When the Bible speaks of the *Son* it is referring to the *flesh* that God dwelled in while He was on earth, as a man or the Son/Flesh of God.

Jesus is God; no one is denying that fact!

Col.2
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

MEE

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by dean198:
It seems that some on here hold to oneness doctrine. Jesus is not the "everlasting father." Young's Literal renders the Hebrew literally into English as "father of eternity." This is totally different. Jesus is the Son of God, it is that simple. God sent His Son, He didn't send himself.
Dean

Isa.9
6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Hmm... ..The everlasting Father?

I wonder who put that in our Bible?

MEE

 

[Bro Tony]

It's just that some seem to think that the Son/Jesus is the "second person" in a Trinity.

Amen!!!! Because that is what the Bible teaches.

Still waiting on the Isaiah 48 verse and when that is done there is a whole lot more.

Bro Tony

 

[BobRyan]

God the Father said of God the Son - "THIS is MY beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" - two persons - ONE God.

God the Son said of God the Father "I GO TO the Father... The Father is Greater than I AM"..

God the Son said of God the Father "of that day and hour No man knowing NOT EVEN the Son - but the Father Alone".

God the Son as the God-man pleaded with God the Father -- "Father IF it be possible let this cup pass from ME nevertheless NOT MY will but THY will be done".

Jesus the God-man said of God the Father - "In MY House there is many mansions" ... OOPS! no that is not what He said -- rather He said "In MY FATHER's House there are many mansions". John 14.

IN 1Cor 15 we find that the Father and the Son have a relationship EVEN NOW as all things are being put into subjection under His feet.

There are so many - many - many places where we see the TWO PERSONS of the Godhead interacting with each other and referencing each other - that we have no room to doubt.

As for the THIRD person of the Godhead. IN John 16 Christ speaks of the Spirit of Truth saying that "WHEN HE comes HE will teach you all things and will guide you into all truth".

Jesus did not say - "I AM NOW with you in this form and I will return to you in the form of the Spirit - and then I will teach you and will guide you into all truth".

The point is clear - the THREE persons of the Godhead are clearly seen in scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[MEE]

Tony, explain something to me! If God is the first person in the Trinity and the Holy Ghost is the third person, why did Jesus say that He is the first and the last?

Rev. 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending.

MEE