saturneptune
New Member
One has to know what a true "religion" is before one can define a false religion. If one has no standard, one can draw on conclusion.
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Who is Rick Warren, really?
- Thread starter SolaSaint
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One has to know what a true "religion" is before one can define a false religion. If one has no standard, one can draw on conclusion.
saturneptune
New Member
There are good, solid posts on both sides of this question about Rick Warren. Except for one poster, over the years, I have had good exchanges with members on both sides of this question, and respect all the posts. He is one of those cases where feelings can change as one reads another post or article, or views a clip.
Sometimes in situations like this, I ask myself, regardless of technique, what has my life accomplished for the Lord compared to Rick Warren's. I think the answer to that is obvious. Unless he is doing something obviously anti-Biblical or teaching heresy, beyond method or technique, what right to I have to criticize someone who has done more for the Lord than if I lived 100 more years? That is not to say I like the way he has done everything or his marketing ideas, but this is a valid question to ask one's self.
Maybe a bad comparison, but there have been several threads, mostly in the past, about Billy Graham and something he said or ran his crusades. I asked myself the same question when these threads came up. The number of people I have told the Gospel to that had any results I saw would probably have lasted about two minutes of one of his crusades.
This is a totally different catagory than people like Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swggart, PTL Club, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, 700 Club, The World Tomorrow, etc, who are nothing but money changing clowns.
Sometimes in situations like this, I ask myself, regardless of technique, what has my life accomplished for the Lord compared to Rick Warren's. I think the answer to that is obvious. Unless he is doing something obviously anti-Biblical or teaching heresy, beyond method or technique, what right to I have to criticize someone who has done more for the Lord than if I lived 100 more years? That is not to say I like the way he has done everything or his marketing ideas, but this is a valid question to ask one's self.
Maybe a bad comparison, but there have been several threads, mostly in the past, about Billy Graham and something he said or ran his crusades. I asked myself the same question when these threads came up. The number of people I have told the Gospel to that had any results I saw would probably have lasted about two minutes of one of his crusades.
This is a totally different catagory than people like Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swggart, PTL Club, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, 700 Club, The World Tomorrow, etc, who are nothing but money changing clowns.
Trying to link his ministry to Islam is mud slinging. My point to you initially is you have extra-biblicaly added to the very definition of ecumenism.
Like I said before, ecumenism is not a dirty word except to Baptists. Jesus even practiced it.
Warren is no more perfect in everything he does than anyone else. But the criticism goes to far very often. He is not any worse than anyone else in the ministry.
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
Not sure I agree Rev. Although we all have our imperfections. Should a minstry leader be scrutinized a little closer if he effects millions with his teaching/preaching and programs? I don't know.
My main concern is that Rick warren seems to be soncerned with offending others, that he at times at least gives the appearance of watering down the faith.....
Until you have been to Saddleback and personally seen him and his ministry there is little room for wholesale condemnation.
Reading between the lines, Dawg?!?
I guess there's no apology coming from your side of the keyboard?:laugh:
No attempt to link RW to Islam. Just pointing out that he is once again supporting an Islam project. I would not be linked to any program that teaches anything but the work of Christ on the cross. Especially a minstry or religion that is anti Christian [we are the great Satan], and Islam has been known to kill Christians. And while the church is linked to the same practices [the crusades], I would not be associted with any group practicing such things [Christian or Islam or Catholic or whatever].
It should be noted that to partner up with Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Scientogloist, Muslims, is not different than partnering up with Satanists and atheists in order to "win" them over to our way? No Way!
Again, we are told not to be Unequally Yoked!
I guess there's no apology coming from your side of the keyboard?:laugh:
No attempt to link RW to Islam. Just pointing out that he is once again supporting an Islam project. I would not be linked to any program that teaches anything but the work of Christ on the cross. Especially a minstry or religion that is anti Christian [we are the great Satan], and Islam has been known to kill Christians. And while the church is linked to the same practices [the crusades], I would not be associted with any group practicing such things [Christian or Islam or Catholic or whatever].
It should be noted that to partner up with Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Scientogloist, Muslims, is not different than partnering up with Satanists and atheists in order to "win" them over to our way? No Way!
Again, we are told not to be Unequally Yoked!
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Please Explain....
....your understanding of unequally yoked? I do not see Jesus teaming up with any religions of His day. Sure He talked with them, but never did he set up conferences and appear as the keynote speaker. If He did, please point out to me the Scriptures where He did! :thumbs:
....your understanding of unequally yoked? I do not see Jesus teaming up with any religions of His day. Sure He talked with them, but never did he set up conferences and appear as the keynote speaker. If He did, please point out to me the Scriptures where He did! :thumbs:
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
I no way have I said or condone a wholesale condemnation. Saddleback has little to do with my criticizm, I'm more concerned with what he is teaching others to do and with whom he is associating.
Um...sermon on the mount?
Twisting ot twisted?
Me thinks the Dawg is twisting the word to fit his argument. The sermon on the mount was an impromptu meeting, and certainly not a multi-national gathering of various religions. And it was far from being an organized a conference of diverse religious folks meeting to all share their different beliefs and come together on an agenda that would allow them to be one united front.
It was Jesus who said on several occasions that He and God were one, and that HE was the only way to God.
SEE:http://www.jesus.org/is-jesus-god/w...jesus-claim-to-be-the-only-way-to-heaven.html
The above is a great article, quoting several other scholars on the same subject. And then there's the following:
In answer to Dawg and Mexdeaf, I think the following refutes your argument that Jesus was ecumenical in nature - In answer to the second temptation, He said: "It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve."
So, keep trying guys, you may find one Scripture or text that, with the help of WD40, just might squeeze in between the lines of your understanding of what you are trying to say! :type:
Me thinks the Dawg is twisting the word to fit his argument. The sermon on the mount was an impromptu meeting, and certainly not a multi-national gathering of various religions. And it was far from being an organized a conference of diverse religious folks meeting to all share their different beliefs and come together on an agenda that would allow them to be one united front.
It was Jesus who said on several occasions that He and God were one, and that HE was the only way to God.
SEE:http://www.jesus.org/is-jesus-god/w...jesus-claim-to-be-the-only-way-to-heaven.html
The above is a great article, quoting several other scholars on the same subject. And then there's the following:
In answer to Dawg and Mexdeaf, I think the following refutes your argument that Jesus was ecumenical in nature - In answer to the second temptation, He said: "It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve."
So, keep trying guys, you may find one Scripture or text that, with the help of WD40, just might squeeze in between the lines of your understanding of what you are trying to say! :type:
The title of the op makes it appear that way. I would also say that my response should have been more clear to communicate my statement was really intended for all of the criticism I have seen and not just you or one individual.
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
You just completely changed the dynamic of what is being discussed. I would also like you to provide a source where Warren desires a one world religion.
...and? Where has Warren ever said different?
Red herring as nobody including Warren disagrees.
Completely irrelevant to what is being discussed. Merely a strawman you have blown over as nobody disagrees.
...says the one who doesn't even understand the passage on what being unequally yoked means
quantumfaith
Active Member
You just completely changed the dynamic of what is being discussed. I would also like you to provide a source where Warren desires a one world religion.
...and? Where has Warren ever said different?
Red herring as nobody including Warren disagrees.
Completely irrelevant to what is being discussed. Merely a strawman you have blown over as nobody disagrees.
...says the one who doesn't even understand the passage on what being unequally yoked means
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
In Your Case...
...silence is "golden [on my behalf]!" I refuse to continue to debate with a person who continues to pull things from what I say and to make a mockery of my original point.
In closing let me point out one thing: I never said RW is for one world religion. I simply pointed out he is involved in an ecumenical conference, again! The two have nothing to do with each other, Dawg! And you are trying to make something out of nothing.
It would appear that you are simply looking for an argument, and I will not respond any longer. If you are a RW fan, that is your right. I am not in his camp, and that is my right. I gave my reasons, and you continue to shoot holes in them. Again, your right, but each response from you grows more ludicrous, and I don't need your ridiculous accusations.
Finally, you tell me where in the verse [2 Corinthians 6:14 - "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?"] Just what am I misunderstanding! It is clear that unequally yoked covers ANY fellowship activity with another who is not of the light! If one attends a ecumenical conference to learn about other religions, that may be acceptable. BUT, to be an active agent in putting it together and teaching along side of those who are in fellowship/communion with your faith, is to be unequally yoked! Show me where in this text where I am lacking understanding, Dawg?
Better, yet, move on to another forum member who wants to spar with you. I am finished. You know what I believe, and I know what you believe. Neither of us are on the same page, and that is between you and God, not you and I! Shalom!
You just completely changed the dynamic of what is being discussed. I would also like you to provide a source where Warren desires a one world religion.
...silence is "golden [on my behalf]!" I refuse to continue to debate with a person who continues to pull things from what I say and to make a mockery of my original point.
In closing let me point out one thing: I never said RW is for one world religion. I simply pointed out he is involved in an ecumenical conference, again! The two have nothing to do with each other, Dawg! And you are trying to make something out of nothing.
It would appear that you are simply looking for an argument, and I will not respond any longer. If you are a RW fan, that is your right. I am not in his camp, and that is my right. I gave my reasons, and you continue to shoot holes in them. Again, your right, but each response from you grows more ludicrous, and I don't need your ridiculous accusations.
Finally, you tell me where in the verse [2 Corinthians 6:14 - "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?"] Just what am I misunderstanding! It is clear that unequally yoked covers ANY fellowship activity with another who is not of the light! If one attends a ecumenical conference to learn about other religions, that may be acceptable. BUT, to be an active agent in putting it together and teaching along side of those who are in fellowship/communion with your faith, is to be unequally yoked! Show me where in this text where I am lacking understanding, Dawg?
Better, yet, move on to another forum member who wants to spar with you. I am finished. You know what I believe, and I know what you believe. Neither of us are on the same page, and that is between you and God, not you and I! Shalom!
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