Who is the real Charles Finney?

[Van]

Sorry Van no one is able to criticize the great Charles Finney who was the greatest evangelist of All time even though we had gospel that was a mix of work s. grace

Does HD have an answer to my question? Any non-Calvinist?

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry Van no one is able to criticize the great Charles Finney who was the greatest evangelist of All time even though we had gospel that was a mix of work s. grace

He made Wesley look like John Calvin in his salvation beliefs!

 

[kyredneck]

Your true colors and identity are now revealed as many have correctly suspected
Why this dishonest charade?
No one goes from presenting Calvinism,to Finneys works overnight
Finney himself said his supposed converts were a disgrace.
You initially deleted your Finney post, changed the second commandment violation into an image of your guy, Finney?
lol...why should we pay attention or take anything you say as legitimate?

I accomplished everything I intended to accomplish in removing the blinders of anti-Calvinists, and now I'm doing the same for the other side, to the glory of God alone. Are we not all brothers and sisters in Christ?

Icon, if this is all HD is up to...all I can say is; no harm done. In fact, HD has certainly livened things up around here.

See (my post here):
How Should Arminians and Calvinists Approach One Another? | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

 

[Yeshua1]

It's very funny and kind of sad how modern-day Calvinists often accuse Charles Finney of Pelagianism, without actually quoting what he actually taught. Charles Spurgeon obviously didn't see Finney as Pelagian.

If Billy Graham weren't so recently deceased, I would imagine that modern-day Calvinists would be doing anything they can to smear his legacy too.

I had biggest issues with Billy making Rome appear to be just another Christian church!

 

[Humble Disciple]

I had biggest issues with Billy making Rome appear to be just another Christian church!

The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (JDDJ) is a document created and agreed to by the Catholic Church's Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (PCPCU) and the Lutheran World Federation in 1999 as a result of extensive ecumenical dialogue. It states that the churches now share "a common understanding of our justification by God's grace through faith in Christ."[1] To the parties involved, this essentially resolves the 500-year-old conflict over the nature of justification which was at the root of the Protestant Reformation. The World Methodist Council adopted the Declaration on 18 July 2006.[2][3] The World Communion of Reformed Churches (representing the "80 million members of Congregational, Presbyterian, Reformed, United, Uniting, and Waldensian churches"), adopted the Declaration in 2017.[4]
Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification - Wikipedia

 

[Yeshua1]

Rome denies Pauline Justification, still teaches heresy!

 

[Dave G]

I'll make one more set of replies to this thread to clarify my position, @Humble Disciple:

Christians can agree to disagree on matters that are unessential to salvation.

What constitutes the Gospel, in the details, is not up for negotiation.

That's why the New Hampshire Confession and the BFM were written in such a way that both Arminians and Calvinists can accept, and why John Wesley and George Whitefield were able to agree to disagree on predestination and accomplish great things together for the Gospel.

That is why I do not subscribe to what is termed as "ecumenism", and why I do not agree with what is written in most confessions.

 

[Humble Disciple]

The Catholic church might be corrupt as an institution, but the same can be said of most denominational structures. If Catholic priests were on the side of Satan, how would they be able to perform exorcisms? Mark 9:38-39, Matthew 12:26

 

[Dave G]

Jesus said that you will know them by their fruits.

Yes, He did.

That list of fruits is found here:
Galatians 5:19-23.

If my brothers and sisters in the faith find a preacher or a teacher exhibiting bad fruit based on that list, then the Bible says we are to mark and avoid them.

This video breaks down how many people were saved by hearing Finney's preaching, and of them, how many remained lifelong believers:

Were they genuinely converted, or did they respond to the word of God and then fall away from the faith over time, as the parables of the sower and tares describe?

Just because a person makes a profession of faith does not mean that they are saved, HD.
The presence of the Holy Spirit, who leads all believers into the truth, makes all the difference between someone who believes and endures, continues in the word, and finally finishes their race...

Versus someone who professes with the lips, but in their works and in the course of their lives, denies that they truly know God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Does HD have an answer to my question? Any non-Calvinist?

you actually read it correctly.
There is a reason Finney is not trusted.
He was a lawyer, sincere but quite mistaken

 

[MB]

The Catholic church might be corrupt as an institution, but the same can be said of most denominational structures. If Catholic priests were on the side of Satan, how would they be able to perform exorcisms? Mark 9:38-39, Matthew 12:26

There is no doubt the RCC is evil. .Works are not proof of being Christian. Remember Christ told some He never knew them in spite of there works. Works do not save. Nor do they mean those who do them are saved.
MB.

 

[Humble Disciple]

There is no doubt the RCC is evil. .Works are not proof of being Christian. Remember Christ told some He never knew them in spite of there works. Works do not save. Nor do they mean those who do them are saved.
MB.

The point is not that we are saved by good works. The point is that, according to Jesus, we only have the power to cast out demons if we are in Him. Satan cannot cast out Satan. Mark 9:38-39, Matthew 12:26

I have a lot of good reasons for not practicing Catholicism, but the idea that Catholics are unsaved simply for being Catholic isn't one of them.

 

[Van]

you actually read it correctly.
There is a reason Finney is not trusted.
He was a lawyer, sincere but quite mistaken

Thanks, I expect you are correct, but I am still waiting for a non-Calvinist answer.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Thanks, I expect you are correct, but I am still waiting for a non-Calvinist answer.

What does his past experience as a lawyer have anything to do with the content of his teachings and the many souls who, through the working of the Holy Spirit, were saved by his preaching?

Finney gave up his pursuit of practicing law after having a profound experience of the Holy Spirit that convinced him to dedicate the rest of his life to serving Christ and His people.

 

[Van]

What does his past experience as a lawyer have anything to do with the content of his teachings and the many souls who, through the working of the Holy Spirit, were saved by his preaching?

Finney gave up his pursuit of practicing law after having a profound experience of the Holy Spirit that convinced him to dedicate the rest of his life to serving Christ and His people.

Why not answer my question, rather than address something Icon introduced. See my post #28. Thanks

 

[Humble Disciple]

Is our righteousness secured by our continuing faith (or not) in Him?

Preachers and theologians from various Protestant traditions (not only Wesleyan) use the term "imparted righteousness" to identify the righteous principle imparted by God to believers when He regenerates them. Believers thereby become "partakers of the divine nature" (cf. 2 Peter 1:4). It is this principle of righteousness imparted to men in regeneration which is ever in conflict with the old Adamic nature. Protestants, however, maintain the distinction between the "imputed righteousness" of Christ which is the basis for justification and the "imparted righteousness" which is the basis for subsequent sanctification.
Imparted righteousness - Wikipedia

Jesus said that, if you love Him, you will keep His commandments (John 14:15), that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 5:20) and Hebrews 12:14 says that, without holiness, no one will see the Lord.

Without God's sanctifying grace, given by Christ's imparted righteousness, this righteousness wouldn't be possible.

Impart:
to give, convey, or grant from or as if from a store
her experience imparted authority to her words
the flavor imparted by herbs
Definition of IMPART

The doctrine of imparted righteousness is that Christ died to save people from sin rather than just to give them an excuse to continue in sin. This power over sin is freely given by Christ's sanctifying grace to those who trust in Him.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Why do modern-day Calvinists insist on breaking the the ninth commandment for any preacher or theologian who disagrees with their theology, by falsely accusing them of Pelagianism?

 

[Humble Disciple]

 

[Iconoclast]

Why do modern-day Calvinists insist on breaking the the ninth commandment for any preacher or theologian who disagrees with their theology, by falsely accusing them of Pelagianism?

All Calvinists modern or otherwise know a gospel of works cannot save.
When those you support offer those teachings they will be opposed up and down the line as the false teachers they are.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Whether you like it or not, Charles Finney was closer to what the Anabaptists actually taught, our forerunners in the Baptist faith, than what Calvinists taught:

Does the Bible teach Original Sin?