-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Who Killed Christ? Jews or Romans?
- Thread starter DrJamesAch
- Start date
DrJamesAch
New Member
[slander and unfounded attack on another poster]
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a good Scripture, but it doesn't apply to what you desire.
Pilate washing his hands didn't absolve his responsibility, for the Jews could not crucify anyone.
The proclamation of the Jews that "His blood be upon us, and our children" does not mean that it obliges God to validate that desire.
All were guilty for generating a rational for the crucifixion, and because BOTH gentile and Jew was involved, all bear that responsibility placed upon them by God.
Does not the Scriptures teach that God has the heart of the rulers in His hand and will turn it however He desires?
Here is a great example of that very Scripture in practical action.
God commanded the crucifixion, used prophets to state the particulars, and then used contemporaries to Christ to carry it out.
It is not foundational to Scripture to place "blame" upon one group or another when it was all according to the direct and purpose of God.
Like I said, if there is any blame - it is mine.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Sorry friend but your posts are so far off tack and fallacious that it is actually saddening. It runs along the same lines of you accusing the responses of Cals here who give good sound responses to being akin to achs responses -- i.e. there is no comparison and your accusations there are quite simply unfounded.
preacher4truth
Active Member
You're correct and I agree. Someone has poisoned the well they're drinking from.
I'm reporting this post, you are now once again falsely accusing me. I know nothing about any 'White Pride World Wide' whatever, and you are a very low life individual to stoop to these sort of lies.
And for the record, I don't care if Jesus was polka dot, he is my Saviour.
James, I am not certain that the BB approves using discussion(s) from other boards to be brought to this board in disparaging someone in which one disagrees.
Stick to Scripture and Scriptural principals to support your view.
So, you can prove that God commanded sin?
That Christ was sinful by committing to the Cross?
preacher4truth
Active Member
You continue to be way off track.
preacher4truth
Active Member
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Then I would implore you to take the Scriptures I have used on this thread, and the applications that I have made and show in what I am in error.
glazer1972
Member
I killed him.
Who Killed Jesus
Chorus 1
Who killed Jesus many years ago
Who is guilty of a crime so low
Why did He have to die
What is the reason why
Who killed Jesus
I would like to know
Was it Roman soldiers
With their tools of war
Driving nails thru hands that did no wrong
Mocking and abusing
Crowning Him with thorns
All the evidence is very strong
Was it Pontius Pilate
He was governor
Trying to decide the case that day
Finding that the Savior
Had no fault His own
Was he guilty when he turned away
Was it Hebrew children
Proud of who they were
Shouting crucify Him at their King
Trading their Messiah
For a common thief
Turning down the kingdom He could bring
When I think of Jesus
And the way He died
How upon Him all my sin was laid
All the other people
Fade away from view
It's for me the sacrifice was made
I no long wonder anymore
I have found what I've been searching for
My sin demanded hell
On Him the judgement fell
I am guilty
Now it's plain to see
That it was really me
© 1970 New Spring
Mickey Holiday
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Christian-Music-2785/2008/10/Christian-Song-1.htm
Chorus 1
Who killed Jesus many years ago
Who is guilty of a crime so low
Why did He have to die
What is the reason why
Who killed Jesus
I would like to know
Was it Roman soldiers
With their tools of war
Driving nails thru hands that did no wrong
Mocking and abusing
Crowning Him with thorns
All the evidence is very strong
Was it Pontius Pilate
He was governor
Trying to decide the case that day
Finding that the Savior
Had no fault His own
Was he guilty when he turned away
Was it Hebrew children
Proud of who they were
Shouting crucify Him at their King
Trading their Messiah
For a common thief
Turning down the kingdom He could bring
When I think of Jesus
And the way He died
How upon Him all my sin was laid
All the other people
Fade away from view
It's for me the sacrifice was made
I no long wonder anymore
I have found what I've been searching for
My sin demanded hell
On Him the judgement fell
I am guilty
Now it's plain to see
That it was really me
© 1970 New Spring
Mickey Holiday
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Christian-Music-2785/2008/10/Christian-Song-1.htm
Fred's Wife
Member
Scripture says that Jesus Christ was CRUCIFIED (Matthew 27:26-50; Mark 15:21-37; Luke 23:21-46; John 19:16-30). The Romans used crucifixion as punishment for serious crimes such as insurrection and murder. Crucifixion is described in Psalms 22, which was written hundreds of years before the Romans used it as their means of capital punishment. His vicarious death (for the sin of all mankind), as well as His glorious resurrection, is described in Isaiah 53:
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Last edited by a moderator:
And Jehovah God said unto the serpent……. thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:14,15
....Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3:7
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. Jn 8:44
...the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan.... Rev 2:9
....the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie;... Rev 3:9
Can we then say that His disciples killed him? Are the Eleven guilty of Judas' act of betrayal?
The question was, who killed the man, Jesus? Was it Rome or Judah? The answer is Judah. Rome defended Him. Pronounced Him innocent. Gave Judah an opportunity to show mercy during the Passover. Judah would have none of that.
If you desire to be guilty of Christ's body and blood, partake of the Lord's Supper unworthily.
Last edited by a moderator:
DrJamesAch
New Member
I can quote verses with the words serpent in them too:
" Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods." Exodus 7:11-12
"And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live." Numbers 21:8
"Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;" Psalm 58:4 refers to ALL. It is quoted in Romans 3:11-17 in reference to ALL SINNERS. So we are ALL serpents and vipers.
"The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee." Micah 7:16-17
"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years" Revelation 20:2
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Revelation 13:1.
Funny, I thought Israel always had 12 tribes, never knew that Israel had 10 horns. Learn something new from racists everyday!
Now on to your butchering of Revelation 2.
Here's some more "DUH" for you. When has the CHURCH ever been instructed to care about whether someone was TRULY JEWISH or not? NEVER. Gal 3:27-28. Oh, I know "Romans 2 shows we a 'spiritual Jews'" Hogwash. Romans 2 is to "thou being a JEW and RESTEST IN THE LAW"- Romans 2 is about LITERAL JEWS. Revelation 2 is about LITERAL JEWS who try fake APOSTLES, and FAKE JEWS. IN ORDER TO TRY A FAKE JEW, THERE HAS TO BE A REAL ONE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE, AND THE REAL JEWS IN REVELATION ARE TWELVE TRIBES OF LITERAL PHYSICAL JEWS:
Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
NOW WATCH VERSE 9:
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"
GENTILES ARE NOT JEWS
Last edited by a moderator:
DrJamesAch
New Member
How did Rome defend Jesus when ultimately they CRUCIFIED HIM. Crucifixion was ROMAN capital punishment, not Jewish. I don't think that defense would stand up at trial:
"Your honor, I am not guilty of murder! I tried to talk them out of having me killed Billy Bob but they were just too persuasive. So you see you're honor, I HAD to kill Billy Bob, but I didn't MURDER him because I tried to excuse him."
Pilate was certainly not SCARED of the Jews, the Jews were scared of HIM:
"If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation." John 11:48
Pilate admitted that Jesus was innocent. Matthew 27:24 and then had Jesus scorged and whipped BY ROMANS, had a crown of thorns placed on his head, spit on him, beat him all done BY ROMANS, had him nailed to a cross BY ROMANS, and a spear shoved in his side by a ROMAN soldier.
"And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots."
So the Romans spit in his face, the highest form of insult, mocked His deity, beat him, whipped him, put thorns on his head, nailed him to a cross and speared him, knowing He was innocent, and convicted him under ROMAN LAW, BUT THEY ARE FAULTLESS??
Anyone can take verses that deal ONLY with Jewish culpability and build a case for the Jews sole responsibility if they IGNORE THE REST of the verses that share the responsibility of the Gentiles as well, and in Revelation 1:7 and Zechariah 12:11-12, it is ALL OF US who pierced Christ.
Furthermore, your quote to make oneself unworthy and then guilty of the blood and body of Christ is totally out of context. I Cor 11 shows that the unsaved actually ARE guilty of the body and blood of Christ because the only person "worthy" of partaking in the Lord's Supper is a BELIEVER, and those who were making a mockery of it were doing so to satisfy their own physical appetites, and those who did so who were believers suffered PHYSICAL death. Notice the difference between those who received damnation, and those who were sick. Some received damnation as an unbeliever, others received condemnation (physical) as a believer.
And yes, we can say that at least ONE of the apostles was a partaker in the death of Christ: Paul. Christ Himself said that Paul was persecuting Christ (Acts 9:5, Matthew 25:45), and since Paul was a Pharisee (Acts 23:6, and notice that Paul LIED here) it is more than likely that he was there consenting to the death of Christ, just as he did with Stephen in Acts 8:1.
The Scriptures are clear that BOTH Jew and Gentile alike were responsible for the death of Christ. Jesus made it clear that the Jews had the GREATER sin, but to have a GREATER sin, you have to still have guilt of a LESSER SIN, but a SIN NONETHELESS, John 19:11.