OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The question is not why you believe but why do you believe while others exposed to the same truths do not? So Answer Me: WHY, WHY, WHY?
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Who Maketh Thee To Differ From Another
- Thread starter OldRegular
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The question is not why you believe but why do you believe while others exposed to the same truths do not? So Answer Me: WHY, WHY, WHY?
It is sad to watch people rip scripture from it's context for their presumed pretexts and THIS is one of the most abused by many of my reformed brethren.
The context here is speaking ONLY to and about the saved NOT the about all men in all conditions. And that which 'was received' is explictly about their giftings for the church. It is best if we keep scriptures in their context and stop trying force scripture to say, in certain places, what it was NEVER intending to say.
This could asked about anything, and proves nothing.
I could ask why when hurricane Katrina was approaching New Orleans and the National Weather Service warned people to evacuate, why did thousands of people believe the warnings and flee the city, while thousands of others did not heed the warnings and stayed, some of which died in the storm?
Did the National Weather Service send out an "effectual call" to only those who believed and evacuated? Did they send out a different warning to those who stayed?
So, this question of yours proves nothing at all. People believe for their own reasons, people believe not for other reasons. Some people probably believed the warnings were exaggerated. Perhaps some had rode out several storms before and believed themselves safe. Maybe they thought "it can never happen to me". I had a friend when I was younger, I used to witness to him, but he was busy having fun and partying. One night he was in a vehicle with friends and they went off the road and collided with a tree. My friend and another passenger were killed. My friend was young and healthy, he probably believed he had many years to live, he probably thought nothing bad could ever happen to him. This is how some people are.
There is no such thing as an '"effectual call". This is circular reasoning. Those who hear the gospel and obey are said to have received the "effectual call", those who did not obey did not receive this "effectual call". This is just like the evolutionist's who say "the survival of the fittest". Tell me, do the fittest always survive? Or did many young, healthy people die in the earthquake in Haiti, while many older, unfit people survived? Do the fittest always survive in war? Or do many young, healthy, fit people die in war? But the evolutionists will say they did. So, this is a false argument, I am amazed anyone can fall for this nonsensical circular reasoning.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Was It Shakespeare who wrote: It is a tale told by an i...t, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Assuming Calvinism is true, then why don't we, who have been exposed it, believe it? Why didn't John Wesley believe it? Why didn't CS Lewis believe it? Why? Why? Why?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Because they weren't Calvinist's
I am not a Calvinist either. I have never read anything by Calvin but he held some views that I don't. I do believe in the Sovereign Grace of GOD in Salvation. If GOD had not elected some to Salvation, if Jesus Christ had not paid the penalty for the sins of the elect, if the Holy Spirit had not applied the Cross-work of Jesus Christ to the elect then no one could be saved.
Some continue to believe lies while others accept the Truth. We see this everywhere, every day. Why? Because people are all very different and are subject to unique as well as common circumstances. There is no way to avoid this unless you are not born. Do you believe prayer changes things? I do! I know several believers who prayed for me before I became a new creature in Christ over 30 years ago. And I thank God that He answered them. Consider those just a few of many reasons. Why are you a Cal and why am I a NonCal. I doubt both of us are right!
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If people have "libertarian free will" that dominates the work of the Holy Spirit, how exactly can God answer these prayers?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
To answer your comment: The man who exercises his genuine freedom of choice will be left in his sins.
The following excerpt from a sermon by Spurgeon could be instructive to all. I am just like Spurgeon; had GOD not chosen me I would still be lost!
John Newton used to tell a whimsical story, and laugh at it, too, of a good woman who said, in order to prove the doctrine of election, "Ah! sir, the Lord must have loved me before I was born, or else He would not have seen anything in me to love afterwards." I am sure it is true in my case; I believe the doctrine of election, because I am quite certain that, if God had not chosen me, I should never have chosen Him; and I am sure He chose me before I was born, or else He never would have chosen me afterwards; and He must have elected me for reasons unknown to me, for I never could find any reason in myself why He should have looked upon me with special love. So I am forced to accept that great Biblical doctrine.
From: http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Perhaps GOD answered their prayer because you are one of HIS Chosen Ones. In truth if you are saved you were Chosen in Jesus Christ to Salvation before the foundation of the world whether you believe it or not.
They were necessary.....they were one of God's means to bring you to Himself. God even made sure those prayers would happen!
If you believe in free-will, then it seems logical that you wouldn't pray for one's salvation...because you are asking God to violate that persons free-will choice in order to save Him.
The entire chapter of 1st Cor 4 is about pride and humility. It's about thinking you're something special and above even your pastor. Paul is warning those who are puffed up or thinking themselves better than another. The first question the way we might say it today.
"For who makes you superior?" No one is superior to another we are all the same. Then he ask;
"What do you have that you did not receive?" We all received what ever it is we have. We didn't create it, or think of it ourselves. Then Paul asked;
"And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?"
In other words acting like you had it all along and acting so pious.
This could be applied to Christians today especially to those with all the degrees after their names. Who want to imply they are always right based on their educational credentials. The gospel was addressed to the poor and uneducated not the high and mighty.
The answer to your question has nothing to do with what Paul asked the Corinthians.
You want to know why some accept the gospel as truth and others don't. The answer is "response to conviction" It is conviction that either drives us to our knees in submission or, drives back into the darkness.
Those driven back to darkness are driven back their because they refuse to face their own sins. They refuse to believe. They refuse to surrender. They think of them selves as, to good to have ever sinned. Others face their sin and hate God all the more for showing them their sin.
Those who are driven to their knees are driven their because of remorse for the sin in their lives and the knowing of what they put Christ through to save them. They realize they are responsible for every stripe the Lord received for us. They know they are responsible for every drop of blood Christ shed. They know that because of LOVE, Christ died for them. They then surrender or give up there rebellion against God. None of this was done by man but by God. It came about by being convinced and convicted.
MB
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You are wrong. Prayers are necessary because we are instructed to pray.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Well Said!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
This is a common misconception of those who hold to LFW. We don't deny the ability of God to influence and affect man's will. Romans 11 speaks of envy provoking the hardened Jews, for example. Paul credits God with provoking the Jews with envy by engrafting the Gentile people, but he still speaks of their need to "leave their unbelief."
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Why don't some believe the truths being revealed?
Which answer does the bible support:
A. Because God has punished them by making them born in a state of total depravity due to the Fall of Adam and did not choose to save them from this condition leaving them to certain damnation.
B. Despite God's long suffering and patience with them (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Tim 2:4), holding out his hands to them (Rom. 10:21) desiring them to come to repentance (Mt. 11:28), revealing His divine attributes and eternal nature (Rm 1) along with the clear message of reconciliation (2 Cor 5:11), they rebelled and their hearts grew calloused making them without excuse (Rm 1; Acts 28). They resisted the Holy Spirit just like many of their fathers did before them (Acts 7:21). Their hearts had grown hardened, OTHERWISE they might see, hear, and repent (Act 28:21-28; John 12:39-41).