Who Needs the ‘Resistance’ When You’ve Got the GOP Writing the Budget?

[Rob_BW]

I was talkling about NC in general, which I have always loved. In my perspective yes, unfortunately. I believe Trump has re-ignited racism in America.

I told a friend of mine at church I thought America is now more divided than it ever has been in my life. That includes early memories of the racial problems in the 50's and early 60's as well as the anti-war demonstrations in the 60's and early 70's. He told me his father said he disagreed because "we haven't started hanging anyone yet." His father actually was present at hanmgings of blacks in the 50's.

My dad was born in '33, and he remembered signs advising all black people to be out of town by sundown. This is in the mountains of western Maryland, 30s or 40s, so these things weren't restricted to dixieland.

Now I look at my own references. The family reunion has been happily racially integrated since a few years before I was born. I go to work and my supervisor and all 4 of my employees are black, and we manage to work happily together.

I won't argue that things couldn't be better, and I'm sure we can play the blame game all day with no resolution. But saying that we are more divided now than in the 50s seems pretty hyperbolic to me.

 

[InTheLight]

I won't argue that things couldn't be better, and I'm sure we can play the blame game all day with no resolution. But saying that we are more divided now than in the 50s seems pretty hyperbolic to me.

Thanks, Rob. I was going to say something similar but since you live in NC, I was hoping you'd address it. The idea that racism is worse now than it was 50 years ago is hard to believe.

 

[Calminian]

I was talkling about NC in general, which I have always loved. In my perspective yes, unfortunately. I believe Trump has re-ignited racism in America....

Trump is trying to help race relations. Obama spent his entire presidency trying to divide us, and putting police in danger. Police murders rose dramatically during Obama's presidency. It's not Trump's mess, be he's trying to clean it up.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Trump is trying to help race relations. Obama spent his entire presidency trying to divide us, and putting police in danger. Police murders rose dramatically during Obama's presidency. It's not Trump's mess, be he's trying to clean it up.

That's ridiculous. The average number of police officers killed in the line of duty was 166 in GW Bush's administration (excluding 2001 because of 9/11) was 166 and the average for Obama's 8 years is 144. Obama REDUCED the number of police officers killed. Just what has Trump done to further reduce the number of police officers killed (specifically)?

Officer Deaths by Year

These numbers come from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund web site.

 

[Calminian]

That's ridiculous. The average number of police officers killed in the line of duty was 166 in GW Bush's administration (excluding 2001 because of 9/11) was 166 and the average for Obama's 8 years is 144. Obama REDUCED the number of police officers killed. Just what has Trump done to further reduce the number of police officers killed (specifically)?

Officer Deaths by Year

These numbers come from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund web site.

I'm not talking about killed in the line of duty, I'm talking about targeted for assignation. Police officers supported Trump because Obama never supported them. When there was a problem, Obama always blamed them first, even calling them stupid. As a result we've seen them targeted lately. It's a tragedy and Obama is directly responsible.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I'm not talking about killed in the line of duty, I'm talking about targeted for assignation. Police officers supported Trump because Obama never supported them. When there was a problem, Obama always blamed them first, even calling them stupid. As a result we've seen them targeted lately. It's a tragedy and Obama is directly responsible.

Please give me some hard numbers as I did. Also provide numbers on the number of minorities killed by police without justification.

 

[Calminian]

Please give me some hard numbers as I did. Also provide numbers on the number of minorities killed by police without justification.

I'm merely going by the news reports. I saw the speech first hand when Obama called the police stupid over the college professor, but later found they did nothing wrong. And the many news reports of police targeted for assignation. These profoundly increased during Obama's presidency.

Not to mention racial riots in inner cities. Obama stoked the flames of racism often. Trump is trying to fix his mess.

 

[FollowTheWay]

So you can't support your theory. OK.

 

[FollowTheWay]

My dad was born in '33, and he remembered signs advising all black people to be out of town by sundown. This is in the mountains of western Maryland, 30s or 40s, so these things weren't restricted to dixieland.

Now I look at my own references. The family reunion has been happily racially integrated since a few years before I was born. I go to work and my supervisor and all 4 of my employees are black, and we manage to work happily together.

I won't argue that things couldn't be better, and I'm sure we can play the blame game all day with no resolution. But saying that we are more divided now than in the 50s seems pretty hyperbolic to me.

As my friend's father said "We haven't started hanging yet." I suppose I'm going from my own experience in KY in the 50's and 60's. In general, I think KY or at least Louisville where I grew up, was much less racist than the deep south. Did you personmally experience that time? I doubt it.

 

[Rob_BW]

As my friend's father said "We haven't started hanging yet." I suppose I'm going from my own experience in KY in the 50's and 60's. In general, I think KY or at least Louisville where I grew up, was much less racist than the deep south. Did you personmally experience that time? I doubt it.

So the period during Segregation was less racist than today? That's your assertion?

 

[Calminian]

So you can't support your theory. OK.

Not at this point, no, and it appears you cannot either. You referenced a statistic about something unrelated to police targeting. But we do know we've had 8 years of Obama badmouthing police, and apparently race relations have suffered because of it.

 

[Brent W]

But saying that we are more divided now than in the 50s seems pretty hyperbolic to me.

I don't think so at all, considering that in 1965, just 20 years before I was born (and I have already been talked down to once here for being so young) we were passing the Voting Rights Act. Who knows how many blacks were prevented from voting by either out right denial or intimidation in the 1950's. The voting that you see today at a national level is the product of decades of gradual acceptance of minority voting rights that the GOP continue to fight to this day.

That is why you see the trend of the National Vote continue to be abysmal for both parties overall. You can Gerrymander the House all you want but you can not walk away from the fact that the current sitting President of the United States of America failed to receive not 50.01% of the vote, not 49% of the vote, not 48% of the national vote and not 47% of the national vote but only 46% of the American votes cast and if he had not won the other candidate would have not received 50% either.

Pair that with an Electoral victory margin that rivals very few statistically in the history of our country and you can only come to the conclusion that we are very much more divided, when it comes to the voting populous, due to the minorities of this countries that have been disenfranchised so much over the short history of our country.

 

[Rob_BW]

I don't think so at all, considering that in 1965, just 20 years before I was born (and I have already been talked down to once here for being so young) we were passing the Voting Rights Act. Who knows how many blacks were prevented from voting by either out right denial or intimidation in the 1950's. The voting that you see today at a national level is the product of decades of gradual acceptance of minority voting rights that the GOP continue to fight to this day.

That is why you see the trend of the National Vote continue to be abysmal for both parties overall. You can Gerrymander the House all you want but you can not walk away from the fact that the current sitting President of the United States of America failed to receive not 50.01% of the vote, not 49% of the vote, not 48% of the national vote and not 47% of the national vote but only 46% of the American votes cast and if he had not won the other candidate would have not received 50% either.

Pair that with an Electoral victory margin that rivals very few statistically in the history of our country and you can only come to the conclusion that we are very much more divided, when it comes to the voting populous, due to the minorities of this countries that have been disenfranchised so much over the short history of our country.

So both sides redistrict when in power, but when Republicans do it it's racist and when Democrats do it it's all fair. Like where I grew up in western Maryland, staunchly conservative Garrett and Allegheny counties get redistricted by the Democrats in Annapolis, so that old Roscoe Bartlett get voted out and ut goes blue. But that's all okay since it only disenfranchised a bunch of white hillbillies. Got it.

By the way, care to give your opinion on the district maps I posted earlier, in which look more gerrymandered?

 

[Brent W]

So both sides redistrict when in power, but when Republicans do it it's racist and when Democrats do it it's all fair.

Please point out where I equated Gerrymandering to racism in what you quoted lol. I stated that you can Gerrymander all you want in the House and it won't change that the Republican party and the Democratic party will continue to suffer nationally.

Here it is again, in case you want to just quote that part instead of the rest of the post you ignored above:

You can Gerrymander the House all you want but you can not walk away from the fact that the current sitting President of the United States of America failed to receive not 50.01% of the vote, not 49% of the vote, not 48% of the national vote and not 47% of the national vote but only 46% of the American votes cast and if he had not won the other candidate would have not received 50% either.

So please, I await for you to back up your claim that my reference to Gerrymandering was anything but what it was: An attack on both of the beloved billion dollar parties of America.

Your inability to separate my paragraphs and see racism is not my fault, but yours.

 

[Rob_BW]

So when you quote a post about racism and mention a GOP attack on minority voting and gerrymandering in that post, what exactly do you mean?

Still waiting to hear which set of N district maps looks more gerrymandered.

 

[carpro]

The voting that you see today at a national level is the product of decades of gradual acceptance of minority voting rights that the GOP continue to fight to this day.

That is a false statement.

 

[Brent W]

So when you quote a post about racism and mention a GOP attack on minority voting and gerrymandering in that post, what exactly do you mean?

Still waiting to hear which set of N district maps looks more gerrymandered.

You didn't read the whole post. Maybe I shouldn't have started the second paragraph off with that first sentence but you stopped at Gerrymandering and then simply responded. If you had read the entire post you would have seen that the second paragraph ended calling out both parties. Simple as that. Your response to me ignored that part of my post. If you had read it you wouldn't have accused me of saying that Republicans Gerrymander due to them being racist. Simple.

That is a false statement.

It is my opinion. Unless you can provide any evidence that it is indeed false, then your above quote is just your opinion as well. From my view point, that is the opinion I hold. Attacks on voting rights targeting minorities is only something Republicans do unless you can show me Democrats that wish to exclude minority voters? Why they do it, is up for debate. Some say to keep illegals from voting. Some say to keep votes out of Democrats hands. At the end of the day, it is only the GOP that is going after voting rights of minorities with these laws.

 

[Rob_BW]

You didn't read the whole post. Maybe I shouldn't have started the second paragraph off with that first sentence but you stopped at Gerrymandering and then simply responded. If you had read the entire post you would have seen that the second paragraph ended calling out both parties. Simple as that. Your response to me ignored that part of my post. If you had read it you wouldn't have accused me of saying that Republicans Gerrymander due to them being racist. Simple.

Sorry, still not seeing how this:

I don't think so at all, considering that in 1965, just 20 years before I was born (and I have already been talked down to once here for being so young) we were passing the Voting Rights Act. Who knows how many blacks were prevented from voting by either out right denial or intimidation in the 1950's. The voting that you see today at a national level is the product of decades of gradual acceptance of minority voting rights that the GOP continue to fight to this day.

doesn't tie racist motives into what you term a GOP fight against minority voting. You link the segregation era to the current day, whilst the conversation, or at least the post you snipped, directly spoke on redistricting. Reading the rest of the post did nothing to negate your first paragraph.

(Not that I oppose snipping posts. By all means snip away.)

Still, are we more divided now than in the 50s or 60s? I'm not seeing it at all. More divided now than the 90s or even early 2000s? I could see an argument for that.

 

[Brent W]

Sorry, still not seeing how this:


doesn't tie racist motives into what you term a GOP fight against minority voting. You link the segregation era to the current day, whilst the conversation, or at least the post you snipped, directly spoke on redistricting. Reading the rest of the post did nothing to negate your first paragraph.

(Not that I oppose snipping posts. By all means snip away.)

Still, are we more divided now than in the 50s or 60s? I'm not seeing it at all. More divided now than the 90s or even early 2000s? I could see an argument for that.

Just treat them separately and only apply the first paragraph to what was quoted. My second paragraph was only to imply that no matter what either party does with Gerrymandering they are losing the support of more and more Americans each election cycle due to their inability to work together.

This:

I don't think so at all, considering that in 1965, just 20 years before I was born (and I have already been talked down to once here for being so young) we were passing the Voting Rights Act. Who knows how many blacks were prevented from voting by either out right denial or intimidation in the 1950's. The voting that you see today at a national level is the product of decades of gradual acceptance of minority voting rights that the GOP continue to fight to this day.

Pair that with an Electoral victory margin that rivals very few statistically in the history of our country and you can only come to the conclusion that we are very much more divided, when it comes to the voting populous, due to the minorities of this countries that have been disenfranchised so much over the short history of our country.

I believe we are more divided today than in the 1950s. We are seeing the repercussions of an aging election system with more and more minorities that have had their rights attacked in this country from its incarnation finally going to the polls in larger numbers and it is chipping away at the GOP national vote.

Until we see election reform in this country the two party system we have will continue to push Americans further and further away from each other imo.

 

[Rob_BW]

Just treat them separately and only apply the first paragraph to what was quoted. My second paragraph was only to imply that no matter what either party does with Gerrymandering they are losing the support of more and more Americans each election cycle due to their inability to work together.

This:


I believe we are more divided today than in the 1950s. We are seeing the repercussions of an aging election system with more and more minorities that have had their rights attacked in this country from its incarnation finally going to the polls in larger numbers and it is chipping away at the GOP national vote.

Until we see election reform in this country the two party system we have will continue to push Americans further and further away from each other imo.

Oh, I'm done arguing over what was said or implied.

Now I'm just hanging out to see if the guy that told me I couldn't have an opinion on the 50s since I wasn't there tells you the same.

I didn't know that such staunch empiricists still existed.