Who were Jezebel and Baal ?

[rockytopva]

Are you kidding me? Can you prove this charge? Have you ever read a biography of Moody? I've read several, and no one ever accused Moody of being an evangelist to get the money. Billy Sunday was accused that way (maybe truly), and Billy Graham outlived some of these charges from early in his ministry (the Atlanta campaign), but never D. L. Moody.

DL Moody - Because of the book sales....

1. Ephesus - Began with the book of Acts
2. Smyrna - Began with Nero. Foxes lists the persecutions as ten
3. Pergamos - Began when Constantine liberated the Roman Empire
4. Thyatira - Began with Charlemange - The Roman Catholic Church
5. Sardis - Began with Martin Luther
6. Philadelphia - Began with the ana-Baptists - heavily persecuted during the 16th century and into the 17th by both Magisterial Protestants and Roman Catholics. John Bunyan is also Philadelphian and spent a good bit of his life in prison due to his resistance to the state run church.
7. Laodicea - I find traces of this church as early as DL Moody in the 1800's, Who angered the English with rumors of profits made from hymn book sales. DL Moody also was the first in my readings of history to buy a mansion with ministry proceeds.

Now each church had its issues and virtues. And I am not promoting one over the other. When it is all said and done one will be able to look back and see what arose from the times...

1. Apostolic church - "Left their first Love" - Paul
2. Martyred church - Normally Orthodox in faith - Not a lot of cohesiveness here.
3. Orthodox church - Orthodox - A Pygros is a tower - Needed in the dark ages. A barbaric time.
4. Catholic church - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate
5. Protestant church - A sardius is a gem - Ellegant yet hard. Had a name but little in spirituality.
6. Revived church - The great awakening.
7. Materialistic church - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

If it were not for dispensationalism we would all be forced to worship in some state approved church!

 

[rockytopva]

The DL Moody mansion.... Which is why I had to credit him as the first Laodicean evangelist. That is quite a mansion even in today's standard! And comparable to the tele-evangelists mansions we see today!

 

[John of Japan]

The DL Moody mansion.... Which is why I had to credit him as the first Laodicean evangelist. That is quite a mansion even in today's standard! And comparable to the tele-evangelists mansions we see today!

Well, first of all, you don't give us a link. How are we supposed to evaluate the evidence if you just post a picture? Secondly, even if it is Moody's house (I wouldn't call it a mansion, myself), why is it a sin, making you a "Laodicean," to live in a nice house? Can you prove that he bought it with ill-gotten financial gains, rather than that someone gave it to him? I would check this out for myself, except that my bios of Moody are at home and I'm at work.

By the way, as has been said, there is absolutely no evidence for your 7 church 7 ages. theory. I teach Church History, and I would know. On the contrary, in this so-called evil age, some of the greatest revivals in history are taking place in other countries. To believe that this is the Laodicean Age simply be looking at America's religion is very American-centric. Take the blinders off your eyes and read what is happening in China and other places--great revivals!

Now, I have to take back my statement that Moody was never accused of monetary wrongdoing. In The Evangelist, by John R. Rice, accusations against Moody are delineated and proved to be false (pp. 64-67).

 

[rockytopva]

Well, first of all, you don't give us a link. How are we supposed to evaluate the evidence if you just post a picture? Secondly, even if it is Moody's house (I wouldn't call it a mansion, myself), why is it a sin, making you a "Laodicean," to live in a nice house? Can you prove that he bought it with ill-gotten financial gains, rather than that someone gave it to him? I would check this out for myself, except that my bios of Moody are at home and I'm at work.

By the way, as has been said, there is absolutely no evidence for your 7 church 7 ages. theory. I teach Church History, and I would know. On the contrary, in this so-called evil age, some of the greatest revivals in history are taking place in other countries. To believe that this is the Laodicean Age simply be looking at America's religion is very American-centric. Take the blinders off your eyes and read what is happening in China and other places--great revivals!

Now, I have to take back my statement that Moody was never accused of monetary wrongdoing. In The Evangelist, by John R. Rice, accusations against Moody are delineated and proved to be false (pp. 64-67).

I am not calling Laodicean non-Christian, but Christians who live by materialistic standards.

 

[rockytopva]

The link...

D.L. Moody Residence, Northfield Mass - Lost New England

I am not calling D.L. Moody a bad guy, and will say he did a lot of good. But the temptation to live like the modern tele-evangelist seemed there at the end.

 

[John of Japan]

7. Laodicea - I find traces of this church as early as DL Moody in the 1800's, Who angered the English with rumors of profits made from hymn book sales. DL Moody also was the first in my readings of history to buy a mansion with ministry proceeds.

He did not keep the $337,388.64 from British book sales. Read the biographies. This is false witness, forbidden by the Decalogue.

7. Materialistic church - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

Really? People are dying for Christ all over the world, penniless and persecuted. Get your eyes off America and onto the fields of the world.

 

[John of Japan]

The link...

D.L. Moody Residence, Northfield Mass - Lost New England

I am not calling D.L. Moody a bad guy, and will say he did a lot of good. But the temptation to live like the modern tele-evangelist seemed there at the end.

Prove it.

 

[John of Japan]

The link...

D.L. Moody Residence, Northfield Mass - Lost New England

I am not calling D.L. Moody a bad guy, and will say he did a lot of good. But the temptation to live like the modern tele-evangelist seemed there at the end.

Thanks for the link.

 

[rockytopva]

Thanks for the link.

I cannot blame you for defending D.L. Moody and will admit he did a lot of good. I can’t help but to worry though about things like whether or not Fanny Crosby got her due for her contributions towards ministry.

Also, in Laodicea, there is not a whole lot of emphasis on doctrine. D.L. Moody also promoted a wordless book to forward the gospel. I went to a local charismatic church and on looking over the belief statements I said that there was not a whole lot of doctrine here... In which the man smiled at me saying, we like it that way!

 

[rockytopva]

I cannot blame you for defending D.L. Moody and will admit he did a lot of good. I can’t help but to worry though about things like whether or not Fanny Crosby got her due for her contributions towards ministry.

Also, in Laodicea, there is not a whole lot of emphasis on doctrine. D.L. Moody also promoted a wordless book to forward the gospel. I went to a local charismatic church and on looking over the belief statements I said that there was not a whole lot of doctrine here... In which the man smiled at me saying, we like it that way!

Missionary preaching in China using Moody's version of The Wordless Book. - Dwight L. Moody - Wikipedia

I would not support preaching the wordless book. They need (at least) a full, well translated bible, from Genesis to Revelation, to finish this life well.

 

[robycop3]

You are in the midst of the Laodicean age. Where the generations are in need of eyesalve to cleanse them of their worldly ways!

There's no such thing as a "Laodicean age".

 

[robycop3]

The blues had many babies and one of them was rock and roll. And genres such as funk were also children. All of these came out of the Laodicean age. If the eye salve were applied one would have the sense to stay clear of these kind of things!

False doctrine.

 

[John of Japan]

Missionary preaching in China using Moody's version of The Wordless Book. - Dwight L. Moody - Wikipedia

I would not support preaching the wordless book. They need (at least) a full, well translated bible, from Genesis to Revelation, to finish this life well.

What in the world is wrong with the wordless book for giving the Gospel?

And FYI, by the time the missionary in the Wikopedia article preaching in China, they did have the whole Bible in Chinese. But surely you are not saying that a people group needs the whole Bible to get saved, are you?

 

[John of Japan]

Missionary preaching in China using Moody's version of The Wordless Book. - Dwight L. Moody - Wikipedia

I would not support preaching the wordless book. They need (at least) a full, well translated bible, from Genesis to Revelation, to finish this life well.

I think this is actually Spurgeon's version of the Wordless Book. Moody added the color gold, and maybe green..

Here is also a chart used in China for soul-winning around the mid-20th century. This is the Japanese version, which I used many times in that country.

 

[rockytopva]

What in the world is wrong with the wordless book for giving the Gospel?

And FYI, by the time the missionary in the Wikopedia article preaching in China, they did have the whole Bible in Chinese. But surely you are not saying that a people group needs the whole Bible to get saved, are you?

Well... You have a passion for soul winning, which is a good thing.

 

[rockytopva]

Well... You have a passion for soul winning, which is a good thing.

Before he died I purchased RW Schambachs sermons. My view count is over 2 million views!

Www.youtube.com/rockytopva

 

[John of Japan]

Before he died I purchased RW Schambachs sermons. My view count is over 2 million views!

Www.youtube.com/rockytopva

Sorry, don't know the man, but if he preached the plain Gospel of Christ I praise the Lord for him.

 

[Reynolds]

A member was banned for calling me & other Baptists "Jezebel". now, Bible-readers know she was the wife of Ahab, Israel's most-evil king ever, but here's a little more skinny about her.

She was the daughter of Ithobaal 1, king of Tyre, & given in marriage to Ahab to cement the friendship between Tyre & Israel. Her name literally means "Where is the prince or lord?" & also "consort of Baal". We know she was thoroughly evil, plotting the murder of Naboth so Ahab could have his land, among other things, such as promoting the worship of Baal by Israel. Today, her name is used as a term for "a very evil woman" & is considered in English to be one of the worst bad names a woman can be called, even worse than "harlot" & like terms. I suspect that's why that member was banned. (I am male, of course !) Also, Athaliah, an equally-evil woman, was the daughter of Jezebel & Ahab.

This begs the question, "Who is Baal?" Baal, also called "Bel, Bal, & Phoenician B'l, was any one of several gods worshipped by the Sumerians, Phoenicians, Akkadians, ("Sidonian" in Scripture was a term for Phoenicians in general.) Later, some Assyrians, Chaldeans, & Egyptians called one of their gods "Bel". Baal is generally considered to be a chief god in that old pantheon worshipped by those people. So Baal is not the name of any one specific false god.

"Baal" also meant "owner, boss, or lord" in general when applied to people. And Baal & Ba'l mean "husband" in modern Hebrew & modern Arabic respectively.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Chuck and Nancy.

 

[robycop3]

The DL Moody mansion.... Which is why I had to credit him as the first Laodicean evangelist. That is quite a mansion even in today's standard! And comparable to the tele-evangelists mansions we see today!

Moody was AMERICAN, not Laodicean. Laodicea was a TURKISH city, founded C. 260 BC by Antiochus 2 in honor of his wife Laodice.

 

[robycop3]

You are in the midst of the Laodicean age. Where the generations are in need of eyesalve to cleanse them of their worldly ways!

There's no such thing as a "Laodicean age".