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Who will answer with a yes or no?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Van
Correct salvation is by grace, man is by nature dead to God.For I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
'But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD' (Genesis 6:8). First of all, the 'but' separates Noah from the rest of the antediluvians of his time. See Genesis 6:5-7. No doubt he found grace, or unmerited favour with God, by earnestly seeking it. 'For he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.' Without diligent searching, nothing will be found (Deuteronomy 4:29).Question for those able to objectively study scripture - How did Noah find favor in the eyes of the Lord if all people, all the time, constantly seek evil? Answer, the premise of the quoted post, is obviously false.
His thoughts and sighs were on the theme of Psalms 42:1-3. So he searched with all his heart; he rent his heart and not his garments, and he found, according to the promise, favour in the eyes of the Lord.'
Yet the grace that Noah found is all of God. It was God who moved his heart to seek. When the thought first came into his head, "Perhaps there is a holy God who demands perfect obedience. How can I be right with Him?" It was God who placed that holy fear into his heart and he, 'being divinely warned of things not yet seen' (Hebrews 11:7) built an ark for the saving of himself and his house.
Noah was spiritually dead, and, like the rest of us, was by nature an object of wrath. But God, who is rich in mercy, even when he was dead in trespasses, made him alive together with the Christ who was promised before time began (Titus 1:2).
'For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts, and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
But when the kindness and the love of God appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit' (Titus 3:3-5).
Not what the verse says. It says none seek God all the time or when sinning.Man by nature doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
@Van
Correct salvation is by grace, man is by nature dead to God.
How did Noah find favor if he always sought evil? You have no answer, only deflection.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Man by nature doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11Not what the verse says. It says none seek God all the time or when sinning.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
God had mercy on him, he by nature was just like everyone else Gen 6:5How did Noah find favor if he always sought evil? You have no answer, only deflection.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Grace makes one alive to God even while they are dead in sin and able to do nothing Eph 2:3-5
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Noah was of the election of grace
'But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD' (Genesis 6:8). First of all, the 'but' separates Noah from the rest of the antediluvians of his time. See Genesis 6:5-7. No doubt he found grace, or unmerited favour with God, by earnestly seeking it. 'For he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.' Without diligent searching, nothing will be found (Deuteronomy 4:29).
His thoughts and sighs were on the theme of Psalms 42:1-3. So he searched with all his heart; he rent his heart and not his garments, and he found, according to the promise, favour in the eyes of the Lord.'
Yet the grace that Noah found is all of God. It was God who moved his heart to seek. When the thought first came into his head, "Perhaps there is a holy God who demands perfect obedience. How can I be right with Him?" It was God who placed that holy fear into his heart and he, 'being divinely warned of things not yet seen' (Hebrews 11:7) built an ark for the saving of himself and his house.
Noah was spiritually dead, and, like the rest of us, was by nature an object of wrath. But God, who is rich in mercy, even when he was dead in trespasses, made him alive together with the Christ who was promised before time began (Titus 1:2).
'For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts, and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
But when the kindness and the love of God appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit' (Titus 3:3-5).
1) More denial of the obvious.
2) "But" seems an addition by the translators to separate Noah from the common behavior.
3) Favor in the eyes of God indicates Noah had an attribute to God's liking.
4) The verse says Noah found favor in God's eyes, not God found favor in Noah's eyes. No need to rewrite the text to conform to false doctrine.
the rest of your post is simply a fiction to nullify God's word.
Simply reposing without addressing the rebuttal does not move the ball.Man by nature doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
God had mercy on him, he by nature was just like everyone else Gen 6:5
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Grace makes one alive to God even while they are dead in sin and able to do nothing Eph 2:3-5
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Noah was of the election of grace
Pure fiction, in an attempt to deny Noah found favor in the eyes of God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Man by nature doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11Simply reposing without addressing the rebuttal does not move the ball.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Grace, God applied saving grace to noah , otherwise he was like this Eph 2:2-3Pure fiction, in an attempt to deny Noah found favor in the eyes of God.
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Gen 6:5
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
The verse, Genesis 6:8, says Noah found favor in God's eyes, not God found favor in Noah's eyes. The question being avoided like the plague is how did Noah find favor in God's eyes, unless he in his fallen nature still had some spiritual ability to seek God and trust in God?
No answer will be forthcoming.
No answer will be forthcoming.
The verse, Genesis 6:8, says Noah found favor in God's eyes, not God found favor in Noah's eyes.
Pure deflection. That God found favour in Noah's eyes is obvious and undeniable (e,g. Genesis 8:20), but Noah first had to find favour in God's eyes, and that happened before the foundation of the world (Jeremiah 31:3; Ephesians 1:4-6).
You, unfortunately, are denying the answer like the plague. Dead is dead, and spiritually dead is spiritually dead. There was nothing in Noah that would find favour with God and nothing he could do to earn it. No mountain he could climb, no river he could ford, no dragon he could slay. All his righteous acts were like filthy rags before our holy God. Noah found favour in God's eyes because God had loved him from eternity, and in time drew him to Himself.The question being avoided like the plague is how did Noah find favor in God's eyes, unless he in his fallen nature still had some spiritual ability to seek God and trust in God?
The answer has been given to you times without number, but unfortunately you seem to have neither eyes to see nor ears to hear.[/QUOTE]No answer will be forthcoming.
ChristB4Us
Member
Same thing, a person Christ died for is redeemed before they believe, or receive it by faith into their minds and heart. Its the unredeemed who never believe.
How did the Gentiles receive the remission of sins?
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
If it is when they believe in Him for when they are born again of the Spirit and thus having received the remission of sins for when they had believed in Jesus Christ, then how can they be already redeemed before that moment of salvation?
You acknowledged that the unredeemed are those that never believed, and yet you do not seem to apply the opposite for when those who believe is when they are actually redeemed.
Did you get this teaching from somewhere because I am not seeing that in the Bible. I fail to see the point of it when it seems to oppose the point for why the preaching of the cross is to be given for this to happen in the scriptural reference below.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 10:88 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
1) Is it wrong to believe fallen mankind is able to seek God and trust in Christ, in light of God revealing Himself and providing the gospel of Christ?
2) Did God really choose some foreseen individuals with or without foreseen faith when He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world? If this was a corporate election then God did not choose any specific individuals, just the target group of His redemption plan, those who would be redeemed by His Redeemer.
3) Is our faith in Christ really instilled supernaturally, i.e. a gift of faith? What does scripture say, 1 Corinthians 12:3 and Ephesians 2:8?
4) What does "no man can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit" mean? (1 Corinthians 12:3).
5) Does choosing to seek God and trust in Christ make salvation dependent on man and not on God? Romans 9:16
6) Does Christ making it possible for all men to be saved mean He does not actually save all who are saved?
7) Does the "from our point of view" dodge really resolve the conflict over when we were chosen, after we believed or before creation?
8) Does scripture say no one would ever make the right choice unless God supernaturally intervened and caused that choice? (Revelation 3:20, Joshua 24:15, Hebrews 3:7-8, 2 Corinthians 3:5)
9) Is Calvinism's only err the cart before the horse sequencing of choosing some individuals for salvation then sending Christ to die as a ransom for all?
10) Do Arminians err when they put God's choice of individuals after they believe?
11) If many are invited but few are chosen, then what condition precluded the rest?
No.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats Salvation by Grace, Gods unmerited favor, Noah was made alive by Grace. But by nature he was like his fellow citizens, dead Eph 2:1-5The verse, Genesis 6:8, says Noah found favor in God's eyes, not God found favor in Noah's eyes. The question being avoided like the plague is how did Noah find favor in God's eyes, unless he in his fallen nature still had some spiritual ability to seek God and trust in God?
No answer will be forthcoming.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Same thing, a person Christ died for is redeemed before they believe, or receive it by faith into their minds and heart. Its the unredeemed who never believe.How did the Gentiles receive the remission of sins?
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
If it is when they believe in Him for when they are born again of the Spirit and thus having received the remission of sins for when they had believed in Jesus Christ, then how can they be already redeemed before that moment of salvation?
You acknowledged that the unredeemed are those that never believed, and yet you do not seem to apply the opposite for when those who believe is when they are actually redeemed.
Did you get this teaching from somewhere because I am not seeing that in the Bible. I fail to see the point of it when it seems to oppose the point for why the preaching of the cross is to be given for this to happen in the scriptural reference below.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 10:88 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
ChristB4Us
Member
Same thing, a person Christ died for is redeemed before they believe, or receive it by faith into their minds and heart.
It is one or the other as they cannot mean the same thing when redemption is received the moment they believe and not before..
Its the unredeemed who never believe.
Thus by never having believed in Him is how they were not redeemed.
Not every sinner believes in Him at the time they heard the gospel as some will testify that later in life, they did come to & believe in Jesus Christ, and some will testify of the ones that did get saved on their deathbeds, and it would be hard to say they were saved and thus redeemed before they had believed.
Indeed, have you considered that some will take your meaning as an excuse to procrastinate?
2 Corinthians 6:1We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
[/QUOTE]Pure deflection. That God found favour in Noah's eyes is obvious and undeniable (e,g. Genesis 8:20), but Noah first had to find favour in God's eyes, and that happened before the foundation of the world (Jeremiah 31:3; Ephesians 1:4-6).
You, unfortunately, are denying the answer like the plague. Dead is dead, and spiritually dead is spiritually dead. There was nothing in Noah that would find favour with God and nothing he could do to earn it. No mountain he could climb, no river he could ford, no dragon he could slay. All his righteous acts were like filthy rags before our holy God. Noah found favour in God's eyes because God had loved him from eternity, and in time drew him to Himself.
The answer has been given to you times without number, but unfortunately you seem to have neither eyes to see nor ears to hear.
Genesis 6:8 does not say God found favor in Noah's eyes. To reference another verse out of context is pure deflection.
The issue is not that the lost are spiritually dead, but whether that condition makes a person unable to seek God. I provided many verses in the OP that teach the spiritually dead can seek God. You have not seemed to grasp that reality.
Obviously there was something in Noah that found favor, that is what the verse says. See Genesis 6:8.
Just imagine the number of verses where humans are said to have found favor with the LORD. Martin denies each and every one of them.
Did Moses find favor with the Lord? Martin says Nope!
Did David find favor with the Lord? Martin says Nope!
Did Noah find favor with the Lord? Martin says Nope!
Did Mary find favor with the Lord? Martin says Nope!
None of the people said to have found favor actually did according to the bogus doctrine held by some.