Who will answer with a yes or no?

[Brightfame52]

1 Timothy 1:15-16
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost. Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost sinner Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Thus, once again, the passage does not say Paul was redeemed before he believed, but rather that he was redeemed after being a "foremost sinner" as an example for other sinners of God's patience.

All the redeemed will believe sooner or later, but they were redeemed at the Cross by the Death of Christ, not when they believed. See Paul was redeemed by Christ at the Cross before he became a believer., and he is the pattern.

 

[Brightfame52]

Are you of that mindset that everyone is saved regardless if they believe in Jesus Christ or not?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law for all those that believed in Jesus Christ.

You way off.

 

[Van]

Actually its the Truth. Redemption is by the blood/death of Christ. Christ died in 33 ad and redeemed them He died for, now the redeemed may not have been born a sinner until 1945, when were they redeemed by Chrits death ? In 33 ad, but they wont experience its blessings until sometime beyond 1945, after they are born sinners.

Once again the obvious false claim Christ redeemed everyone who will ever be redeemed when He died! Complete fiction.

I have refuted this false claim several times, and of course the rebuttal is never addressed by those posting dark age doctrine.

Can a charge be brought against someone individually chosen for salvation? Nope, Romans 8:33.

We were all at one time children of wrath, vessels prepared for destruction, condemned already due to unbelief? Yes.

Therefore we were not redeemed or even chosen for redemption individually before we existed as "not a people" chosen for His own possession, who had not "received mercy."

 

[ChristB4Us]

Are you of that mindset that everyone is saved regardless if they believe in Jesus Christ or not?

You way off.

Are you sure?

Sure Paul and any other believer was redeemed by Christ prior to becoming believers. They were redeemed solely by Christ having been made a curse for them upon the Cross Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Maybe the first part of your quote needs clarification or editing but it does come off as reading in that way that all believers were redeemed before they were believers and thus saved before they were believers.

 

[kyredneck]

Maybe the first part of your quote needs clarification or editing but it does come off as reading in that way that all believers were redeemed before they were believers and thus saved before they were believers.

6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath [of God] through him.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5

 

[kyredneck]

Once again the obvious false claim Christ redeemed everyone who will ever be redeemed when He died! Complete fiction.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. Isa 53

 

[Brightfame52]

Once again the obvious false claim Christ redeemed everyone who will ever be redeemed when He died! Complete fiction.

I have refuted this false claim several times, and of course the rebuttal is never addressed by those posting dark age doctrine.

Can a charge be brought against someone individually chosen for salvation? Nope, Romans 8:33.

We were all at one time children of wrath, vessels prepared for destruction, condemned already due to unbelief? Yes.

Therefore we were not redeemed or even chosen for redemption individually before we existed as "not a people" chosen for His own possession, who had not "received mercy."

Lol People are redeemed by the blood of Christ not their believing, believing is the evidence of having been redeemed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Are you of that mindset that everyone is saved regardless if they believe in Jesus Christ or not?



Are you sure?



Maybe the first part of your quote needs clarification or editing but it does come off as reading in that way that all believers were redeemed before they were believers and thus saved before they were believers.

I dont know what you talking about.

 

[ChristB4Us]

6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath [of God] through him.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5

Are you agreeing with Brightfame 52?

Granted Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, but that given ransom for redemption is not applied until He enables us to believe.

 

[ChristB4Us]

I dont know what you talking about.

You posted and I shall leave it out of the quote so you can see your words better... "Sure Paul and any other believer was redeemed by Christ prior to becoming believers. They were redeemed solely by Christ having been made a curse for them upon the Cross Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: ~~ end of quote

Granted Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, but that given ransom for redemption is not applied until He enables us to believe.

 

[percho]

You posted and I shall leave it out of the quote so you can see your words better... "Sure Paul and any other believer was redeemed by Christ prior to becoming believers. They were redeemed solely by Christ having been made a curse for them upon the Cross Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: ~~ end of quote

Granted Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, but that given ransom for redemption is not applied until He enables us to believe.

Granted Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, but that given ransom for redemption is not applied until He enables us to believe.

Could one die and be lost before he/He gets around to enabling one to believe?

I vote no, therefore you are redeemed before you believe.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The redeemed Saul heard the voice of Jesus, Jesus knew Saul giving him the Spirit of truth/adoption and Saul believed and followed Him.

Y/N?

 

[Brightfame52]

You posted and I shall leave it out of the quote so you can see your words better... "Sure Paul and any other believer was redeemed by Christ prior to becoming believers. They were redeemed solely by Christ having been made a curse for them upon the Cross Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: ~~ end of quote

Granted Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, but that given ransom for redemption is not applied until He enables us to believe.

Okay I posted that, yet thats not what you stated.

 

[Van]

Lol People are redeemed by the blood of Christ not their believing, believing is the evidence of having been redeemed.

Once again the obvious false claim that Christ redeemed everyone who will ever be redeemed when He died! Complete fiction.

I have refuted this false claim several times, and of course the rebuttal is never addressed by those posting dark age doctrine.

Can a charge be brought against someone individually chosen for salvation? Nope, Romans 8:33.

We were all at one time children of wrath, vessels prepared for destruction, condemned already due to unbelief? Yes.

Therefore we were not redeemed or even chosen for redemption individually before we existed as "not a people" chosen for His own possession, who had not "received mercy."

To repeat, individuals are chosen for redemption through faith, thus they believed before redemption, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

 

[ChristB4Us]

Granted Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, but that given ransom for redemption is not applied until He enables us to believe.

Could one die and be lost before he/He gets around to enabling one to believe?

I vote no, therefore you are redeemed before you believe.

That would preclude receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit at that born again of the Spirit moment of salvation for the believer.

If you are applying predestination as if one is redeemed before they believe, then what is the point of being born again of the Spirit except that moment when you are redeemed?

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

They have to be saved to become His sheep.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The redeemed Saul heard the voice of Jesus, Jesus knew Saul giving him the Spirit of truth/adoption and Saul believed and followed Him.

Y/N?

Not sure how much you are skipping in arriving at that conclusion here.

The persecutor, Saul, heard the voice of Jesus and was stopped in his tracks on the way to Damascus from persecuting more Christians.

While blind, the Lord raised up Ananias to go to Saul for this purpose below.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Although Saul was a potential believer, Saul was not saved yet until he had received the promise of the Holy Spirit.

So how can someone redeemed be blinded? How can someone be redeemed before they had received the Holy Spirit?

I agree that the redemption was there before a sinner is saved by believing in Jesus Christ but they are not born again of the Spirit and thus hence received that redemption until they believe for when they are saved.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.......21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Why would God be pleased to save those that believe if they were already redeemed before they had believed?

I am not sure how you guys can defend that line of thinking when it is the same as putting the cart before the horse.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Okay I posted that, yet thats not what you stated.

What you post was how it came across to me for why I had asked you if that was what you were inferring or meaning.

 

[percho]

Passover
The Lamb of God

What was the purpose of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, the passover, the death of Jesus the Christ? What did it do?

The Lord's passover was the fourteenth day of the first month. When Jesus the Son of the living God died on that fourteenth day of the first month, what did it begin the process of?

What came after the passover, every year from the year they entered the promise land?

Does what followed the passover picture anything relative to salvation of mankind?

cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ, 1 Cor 5:7 YLT

What do you think unleavened you? The passover, maybe?

Maybe one should ask; Would the passover have unleavened me if the feast of being unleavened wasn't given to me?

1 Cor 5:8 YLT so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.

The feast that was for Jews to keep and or Jews and those Gentiles in the church at Corinth?

What about the next feast, the first-fruit of the Spirit? Anything relative to your salvation? Just Jews? Acts 15:7,8 YLT and there having been much disputing, Peter having risen up said unto them, 'Men, brethren, ye know that from former days, God among us did make choice, through my mouth, for the nations [Gentiles] to hear the word of the good news, and to believe; and the heart-knowing God did bare them testimony, having given to them the Holy Spirit, even as also to us,

Does Paul call this the first-fruit of the Spirit in Rom 8:23?

What about the next feast? Jews only? Relative to your salvation? Rom 8:24 Paul states by the Holy Spirit we are saved to hope unseen. Hope of what ? Maybe what we, who have the first-fruit of the Spirit of 8:23, groan for within ourselves?
Wonder what that next feast is relative to relative to our salvation?

What about the residue of mankind?

Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb! Now what?

Maybe I should have started a new thread.

 

[Brightfame52]

Once again the obvious false claim that Christ redeemed everyone who will ever be redeemed when He died! Complete fiction.

I have refuted this false claim several times, and of course the rebuttal is never addressed by those posting dark age doctrine.

Can a charge be brought against someone individually chosen for salvation? Nope, Romans 8:33.

We were all at one time children of wrath, vessels prepared for destruction, condemned already due to unbelief? Yes.

Therefore we were not redeemed or even chosen for redemption individually before we existed as "not a people" chosen for His own possession, who had not "received mercy."

To repeat, individuals are chosen for redemption through faith, thus they believed before redemption, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Redemption comes first by the death of Christ, then the redeemed one has the Spirit sent into their heart, which is regeneration, then they believe Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 

[Brightfame52]

What you post was how it came across to me for why I had asked you if that was what you were inferring or meaning.

I meant what I posted, I posted nothing of the sort you say I posted. How things come across to you has nothing to do with what I actually posted. So try dealing with that

 

[ChristB4Us]

I meant what I posted, I posted nothing of the sort you say I posted. How things come across to you has nothing to do with what I actually posted. So try dealing with that

Fine. By His grace & by His help, I shall deal with it.

Believers are not redeemed before they believe in Him to be saved. Yes, Christ has redeemed us from the law by dying on the cross for our sins but that redemption or ransom paid ahead of time is not received until the sinner believes in Him to be saved and thus redeemed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Fine. By His grace & by His help, I shall deal with it.

Believers are not redeemed before they believe in Him to be saved. Yes, Christ has redeemed us from the law by dying on the cross for our sins but that redemption or ransom paid ahead of time is not received until the sinner believes in Him to be saved and thus redeemed.

Same thing, a person Christ died for is redeemed before they believe, or receive it by faith into their minds and heart. Its the unredeemed who never believe.