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Who wins souls?

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evangelist6589

evangelist6589

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In a previous post John of Japan made a comment that sparked my interest in his reference to a book called the Soul Winner. I have not read this one cover to cover just bits and pieces. However I have read the John R Rice book "The Soul winner." A good book but the author does not believe God to be the ultimate soul winner.

So who wins souls you or God? Do you believe in John 6:44? God is the soul winner and no man can come to him unless he is drawn to salvation by God. If God does not draw him then he will not come to God no matter how hard and prepared the soul winner is.
 
Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

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God saves souls. He is not the ultimate one. He is the ONLY one. He does ask that we go, tell, baptize, disciple, .... evangelize.

But God does the saving/winning.

Can you cite for me the page no. in that book where John R. Rice says that he does not believe that God is the ultimate soul winner?
 
R

Rolfe

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The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. -Proverbs 11:30
 
D

Don

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I believe there is a misunderstanding of "winning souls."

There are two different words used in Proverbs. One is translated as catch/take/win; the other is translated as deliver/save.

The "soul winner" does his best to proselytize, to persuade, to "win over"; and his/her only role in making Christians is to preach the Gospel, and let the unsaved know what hope and salvation could be theirs. The soul winner does not deliver/save.

The deliverance, the saving, is done by God and God alone.

Of course, the hard-core "reformed" will take issue with this explanation, because how can a man persuade another "to Christ"?

The misunderstanding is that God uses the soul winner to draw the unsaved to Him. Thus, God still draws them, and the "reformed" can be satisfied that it is still God who plays the whole part in the process.
 
JonC

JonC

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evangelist6589 said:
In a previous post John of Japan made a comment that sparked my interest in his reference to a book called the Soul Winner. I have not read this one cover to cover just bits and pieces. However I have read the John R Rice book "The Soul winner." A good book but the author does not believe God to be the ultimate soul winner.

So who wins souls you or God? Do you believe in John 6:44? God is the soul winner and no man can come to him unless he is drawn to salvation by God. If God does not draw him then he will not come to God no matter how hard and prepared the soul winner is.
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The language comes from Paul, who said to the weak he became weak, to "win the weak" that he (Paul) "might save some". So the question could be asked, did Paul win souls for Christ? If so, then we are not as idle as your argument might suppose. If not, then Scripture is wrong. I understand God working through us, and "not I but Christ", but I think you are pressing this to an unbiblical point. I hope that you "might save some" brother.
 
evangelist6589

evangelist6589

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JonC said:
The language comes from Paul, who said to the weak he became weak, to "win the weak" that he (Paul) "might save some". So the question could be asked, did Paul win souls for Christ? If so, then we are not as idle as your argument might suppose. If not, then Scripture is wrong. I understand God working through us, and "not I but Christ", but I think you are pressing this to an unbiblical point. I hope that you "might save some" brother.
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Wrong. We do our part and God does his part. But only the elect will respond.
 
JonC

JonC

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evangelist6589 said:
Read John 6:44
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Are you saying John 6:44 cancels 1 Corinthians 9? If so, you are horribly mistaking.

Here is your misunderstanding:

Paul winning souls and saving people points to Paul's work in the Kingdom. The Bible uses these words so we can't deny them. But this doesn't mean Paul apart from God. I think you want to remove Paul from the work because you have been working so hard without much result. I believe this is why you reject 1 Corinthians 9. But Paul saw winning souls (saving men) as his purpose - not because it was either Paul or God but because it was Christ in him and him in Christ.

This is why I can affirm both Jesus' words in John 6:44 AND Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9. God is working through Paul, and God's Word does not come back void. It is also Paul's work in the Kingdom. I believe your denial of such human responsibility, because of your lack of visible confirmation, is why you deny 1 Corinthians 9. Such liberalism in interpretation is wrong, brother. 1 Corinthians 9 is just as much God's word as is John 6, and neither contradict the other.

1 Corinthians 9:18-24 (NASB)

What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

Don't look for excuses. Don't look to excuse yourself from the race. Run in such a way that you may win. This involves caring and ownership, not obeying how you want to obey and ignoring the result. It means putting your all into whatever God calls you to accomplish.
 
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evangelist6589

evangelist6589

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JonC said:
Are you saying John 6:44 cancels 1 Corinthians 9? If so, you are horribly mistaking.

Here is your misunderstanding:

Paul winning souls and saving people points to Paul's work in the Kingdom. The Bible uses these words so we can't deny them. But this doesn't mean Paul apart from God. I think you want to remove Paul from the work because you have been working so hard without much result. I believe this is why you reject 1 Corinthians 9. But Paul saw winning souls (saving men) as his purpose - not because it was either Paul or God but because it was Christ in him and him in Christ.

This is why I can affirm both Jesus' words in John 6:44 AND Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9. God is working through Paul, and God's Word does not come back void. It is also Paul's work in the Kingdom. I believe your denial of such human responsibility, because of your lack of visible confirmation, is why you deny 1 Corinthians 9. Such liberalism in interpretation is wrong, brother. 1 Corinthians 9 is just as much God's word as is John 6, and neither contradict the other.

1 Corinthians 9:18-24 (NASB)

What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

Don't look for excuses. Don't look to excuse yourself from the race. Run in such a way that you may win. This involves caring and ownership, not obeying how you want to obey and ignoring the result. It means putting your all into whatever God calls you to accomplish.
Click to expand...

I do not disagree with 1 Cor 9 nor reject it. It's all scripture and all flows together.
 
JonC

JonC

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evangelist6589 said:
I do not disagree with 1 Cor 9 nor reject it. It's all scripture and all flows together.
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Yet you already have. When I presented you with 1 Corinthians 9 the first time your reply to me was "wrong".

Paul said that he sought to win those under the Law and win those not under the Law. Paul said he sought to save the lost. You say this is "wrong". If Paul were alive today how would you address his "false" statements?
 
John of Japan

John of Japan

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I saw the thread title and then my grandfather's name referenced. Just to be clear here, John R. Rice did not write a book with the title, The Soul Winner. That was Spurgeon. The books Rice wrote on personal evangelism are, The Soul Winner's Fire, The Golden Path to Successful Personal Soul Winning, and Great Truths for Soul Winners.

Carry on.
 
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