Do KJO or KJ Preferred hold that Timothy wrote Hebrews?
Edit - But then, verse 13:23 excludes Timothy as a possible writer of Hebrews.
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Who Wrote Book of Hebrews
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Edit - But then, verse 13:23 excludes Timothy as a possible writer of Hebrews.
As strict KJV... No way!!!...Inspiration of God by the Holy Spirit by the pen of the Apostle Paul... Brother Glen
2 Timothy 2:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
As a strict KJV guy, how do you interpret the verse in the KJV?As strict KJV... No way!!!...Inspiration of God by the Holy Spirit by the pen of the Apostle Paul... Brother Glen
2 Timothy 2:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Hebrews 13:23–25 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you. 24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you. 25 Grace be with you all. Amen. Written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy.
I'm trying to see how the KJV fits that last part in.
Also, does the KJV indicate that Paul is the author? (Or were those two distinct things - you are strict KJV and believe Paul wrote the letter?)
GOD IS THE AUTHOR of Hebrews... In fact he wrote the whole book!.. Brother Glen
The Greek word for “inspired” could be literally translated “God-breathed.” God has intended and inspired every word of Scripture. He is the primary author of the Bible. And yet, God has used human authors as the agents through which He has written the Bible... Any writer of scripture would not be boastful, if we gave them the credit!
The Greek word for “inspired” could be literally translated “God-breathed.” God has intended and inspired every word of Scripture. He is the primary author of the Bible. And yet, God has used human authors as the agents through which He has written the Bible... Any writer of scripture would not be boastful, if we gave them the credit!
Yep. My view of Hebrews is that God wrote it and had He wanted us to know who wrote it He would have told us.GOD IS THE AUTHOR of Hebrews... In fact he wrote the whole book!.. Brother Glen
The Greek word for “inspired” could be literally translated “God-breathed.” God has intended and inspired every word of Scripture. He is the primary author of the Bible. And yet, God has used human authors as the agents through which He has written the Bible... Any writer of scripture would not be boastful, if we gave them the credit!
I'm interested in the KJV comment about Timothy. I didn't realize that before @37818 offered it, but the KJV 1611 includes that it was written by Timothy.
The KJV 1611 edition does have that title, but the title itself is not Scripture.
The KJV 1611 edition concludes Hebrews with "Written to the Hebrewes, from Italy, by Timothie.".
In your opinion, how is the 1611 KJV's statement that Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, from Italy, by Timothy, reconciled with verse 23 which indicates Timothy was not the writer or even present when it was written?
(bump and NOT to get into a translation debate)
The KJV 1611 edition concludes Hebrews with "Written to the Hebrewes, from Italy, by Timothie.".
I am wondering about this statement as the prior verses indicate not only that Timothy did not write Hebrews but he was not present when the letter was written.
I didn't realize the KJV included this statement until @37818 pointed it out. But now it has me wondering.
Does anybody have any insight on the statement?
The KJV 1611 edition concludes Hebrews with "Written to the Hebrewes, from Italy, by Timothie.".
I am wondering about this statement as the prior verses indicate not only that Timothy did not write Hebrews but he was not present when the letter was written.
I didn't realize the KJV included this statement until @37818 pointed it out. But now it has me wondering.
Does anybody have any insight on the statement?
37818
Well-Known Member
Well, maybe, but the copyists did not think so.
Hebrews 13:23-25, "Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you. Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you. Grace be with you all. Amen.
¶ Written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy."
Who Wrote the Book of Hebrews? | Zondervan Academic
"A recent theory suggests that Timothy wrote Hebrews, except for the closing verses that Paul appended himself where Timothy is mentioned by name."
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This is, as you say, "a recent theory." Like all others, it's an educated person's guess.
37818
Well-Known Member
So the idea is that Timothy wrote Hebrews with the exception of 13: 22-25 which was written by Paul.
The only objection I can think of is that it is a new idea (the Early Church held several writers as possible, the most common seems to be Clement, but I have not read of any Early Church writers suggesting that it was written by Timothy).
That seems strange as if I were to read Hebrews in the KJV I'd suggest Timothy wrote it and it was delivered by another who penned the last verses.
Is it a carry over from Catholic tradition that Paul wrote Hebrews? It'd make since as that was Augustine's view, and the KJV was a Church of England product.
But still, there's that last verse attributing it to Timothy (why would the translators of the KJV suggest Paul as the writer).
Just thinking "out loud". I don't understand why Hebrews isn't commonly attributed to Timothy given the history of the KJV.
37818
Well-Known Member
Over all I do not know. And I see how 13:23 can be understood to mean that. There could be a circumstance where Timothy would need be away even having written that.
More I think about it, the more it makes sense.
Timothy was raised Jewish (2 Timothy 3:15) and was to be Paul's traveling companion to that Jewish synagogue.
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That would make sense with the added words (that Timothy had been set at liberty). And it would account for Hebrews not sounding like Paul's writing.
I'm just surprised Timothy has been rejected as the author of Hebrews until recently.
37818
Well-Known Member
Timothy is the transcriber, Paul is the author.
That doesn't work.
The final verse (KJV) states that something was written to the Hebrews by Timothy.
There are two things - the letter (Hebrews) and the appendage (assuming the ending statement in the KJV is correct).
Verses 13:22-25 form an appendage. It was not written by Timothy, but speaks of him.
That leaves the actual letter as being written by Timothy (or that statement is an error).
If the statement is correct then we know Timothy wrote Hebrews. This leaves open who wrote about Timothy. If Paul, then maybe it was a note accompanying Timothy's letter (as Timothy had been previously deprived of liberty per those lines).
BUT there is no indication that Paul dictated the letter to Timothy.
I remain as I did before - if God wanted us to know Paul wrote the letter then God would have had Paul include a salutation as every epistles written by Paul.
As it stands, the only claim we have is in the KJV that Timothy wrote Hebrews.
37818
Well-Known Member
David A. Black holds a distinction between the authorship Paul and it be written by. He suspects Luke wrote for Paul.
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Some do.
I don't believe Paul wrote Hebrews because there is no internal evidence of a Pauline authorship, the theology does not sound like Paul, the language itself is obviously not Paul (hence the idea of somebody else writing his words and translating into Greek....for a Hebrew audience).
But why Luke if the KJV states that the letter was written by Timothy?
And why include Timothy as writing TO the Hebrew people if in fact it was Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles)?
I've heard theories that Paul was being somewhat dishonest because the Hebrews wouldn't listen to him. But that seems too much grasping at straws.
The only thing we have - the only biblical evidence - is in the KJV, that Timothy wrote it (whatever we make of that).
Earliest does not always mean most accurate. It can mean that an early scribe added a comment that shouldn't have been added and no one continued that error again.
Now, Timothy may have written it, but we really have no idea so any statement is truly speculative.
I don't think it is in the earliest manuscripts. It is in TR, but the KJV was based relatively newer manuscripts (it was based on what they had available).
I am still curious as to how KJO brothers would address the statement.
It seems that at least they would think Timothy the writer given that is what the passage states. But I have never heard the suggestion until this thread.
I don't get it.