Whom would you allow to preach...

I hope you don't get the impression I am arguing, if so I will discontinue.

I ask you a question, you greatly disagree with the Calvinist veiw, would you allow that doctrine to be preached in your church?

 

Wow! I agree with Bro. Bob.

It all boils down to election. Do you believe that men are born again by the sovereign act of God to cause a man to be born again? Is this God's sovereign choice? Is it by the will of man?

If it is not all of God then its another gospel.

I would not allow anyone to preach another gospel to my congregation.

 

Ok.

I'm not a pastor. I am the Chairman of Deacons.

Before anyone takes over the pulpit, we make sure we know who he is
and what he believes.

We once had a Calvanist preacher give a sermon, but did not give an invitation at the conclusion of the service. My pastor, who is not Calvanist, then offered an invitation.

But here's my question, of all the verses in the Bible, how many deal with election, foreknowledge, predestination? 1%? 1/2%?

I mean, whether a guy is Calvanist, Hyper Calvanist, Arminian, 1-point Calvanist (I've heard that one before), does it really matter so long as he preaches a salvation message, calling sinners to repentance? Aren't there more things to talk about than predestination, and election?

Don't beat on me, I'm just asking.

So why did Spurgeon allow Moody to speak? I'm sure that the two following had something to do with it:

1) Moody probably didn't talk election from Spurgeon's pulpit,
2) By all acounts, God used Dwight L. Moody in a mighty way and Spurgeon saw it.

 

I don't know about Calvinist churches, but in Primitive Baptist churches we sure have a lot of other things to talk about from the pulpit. It's called preaching the whole counsel of God.
However, at the end of the day, it all boils down to why do you have hope that you are on your way to heaven ?
Is it because you decided for Christ ? Is it because you responded to an eloquently given invitation ? Is it because you felt you had been such a sinner all your life, and now it's time to give God a break, and open the door of your heart to him ?
Or do you realize that, when everything has been said and done, you have no right to claim heaven at all, and must trust in God's mercy and justice, and Christ's finished work, and accept the fact that if perchance you stand before Christ one day only to hear, "I never knew you", then He is just and sovereign and He is the One who truly decides but nevertheless you will live your life for Him on this earth, shun sin, and trust in His goodness and mercy and lovingkindness ?
I preach election and predestination because it glorifies God, magnifies His mercy, puts Christ on the pedestal, focuses on His justness, mercy, love of the Father and obedience to the Father, and teaches my heart to tremble before the King and cling to Him with a lively hope, and I pray that the preaching of His sovereign electing grace has the same effect on the hearers.
I preach election and predestination because it puts the sinner completely at the mercy and disposal of God, and robs him of any thread of self-glory.

No one on this board, not even the adherents of Calvinism, knows why Spurgeon allowed Moody to speak. They lived in another time, with perhaps different situations.
Spurgeon is not around anymore to give any defense for criticisms, neither is Moody here to defend his friend, or vice-versa.
Anything we say will purely be speculative, unless some document is lying around somewhere discussing those very questions.

 

I would say that maybe Spurgeon knew of circumstances that I'm unaware of. Who knows? Maybe he didn't view non - calvinist as "another gospel".

The only thing that I veiw as something I would not allow in our pulpit, is the teaching of the non - calvinist that one has to believe before regeneration. You and I disagree on John 1:12-13. I think it is essential.

 

1) Do we have any idea what Moody preached about (I mean specifically the Spurgeon situation, not in general)?

2) This rings true.

 

Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you let Moody preach at your church?

Adrian Rogers?

 

You will have to bear with me for it may take me some time to figure out how it benifits me.

 

Well, I thank you for that but in no way did I think you were. That is why I didn't understand.

 

I know you didn't ask me but that is where we go beyond our realm, when we try to judge who is saved and who is not. I would never say anyone is not saved, who declare that they are, for that belongs to God and Him alone. I thank God, it is not my job to try and judge his servants.

Romans, chapter 14


"4": Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

I do believe it is another gospel. I do not question your salvation.

I believe God uses all kinds of means to accomplish His purposes. I am in no way saying you are lost Allan. I very highly respect, and like you. I think you are the best appologist for your position on this board.

I believe the mechanics of salvation are so very important. Here is why.

I lived my life (40 plus years) as a person who was taught and believed in free-willism. I didn't know of any other doctrine. I was never taught there was another view of salvation. For years I believed that my salvation depended upon my belief for me to become regenerated. I knew my heart, and knew that I could not be saved. There was always doubt, about myself, about God. I knew that if it depended on me in the least, I could never be saved.

I was taught in a class on Ephesians about God's choosing me before the foundation of the world. I was taught about God's sovereign grace. The realization that I could be saved, not because of anything in me, but by the sovereign grace of God, caused my heart to break for Jesus. I realized that He loved me while I was His enemy. The thought of what He did for me, while I was so full of self, just overcame me and it is that point that I was born again of God.

Things have never been the same Allan. I went back to school to learn more. God called me into ministry and that I would have never dreamed. No one who knew me before would have ever dreamed it either. Everyone who knows me can see the vast, great, unimaginable difference in my life.

That is why the doctrines of sovereign grace are so important to me. I hate the teaching that I used to be taught (free-willism). Why was I not taught the sovereign grace of God sooner? I don't know... but God does, and has a plan. A part of that plan is for me to preach and teach the sovereignty of God in all things, including salvation.

 

Guess it couldn't be any more plain than that. I think I understand the meaning of it anyway.

 

Allan:

Why don't you post, in a different thread, a "message of salvation" exactly as you would deliver it and let those of the Doctrine of Grace point out why they could not agree with your message ?

Just a thought.