Whose Church is it?

[Tom Butler]

I hope no one is reading this and think I mean to keep them from coming in and hearing the word of the Lord. We are talking about membership here. Everyone is welcome at our church at any meeting we have.

I'm glad you said this, for that's what I've been talking about as well.

Benjamin, thanks for your clarification as well.

 

[Brother Bob]

Of course not, I’m saying the keepers of the flock will support the weak and build them up with the words of His grace. The wolves will rise up in the church and distort that message.__________________

Please accept my humble apology and I am so glad I got it wrong or I could of kept my mouth shut.

 

[Benjamin]

1. Seems I may have a bit opposite view on the wolf part they being the ones to distort the grace of God

2. and to speak the word of His grace which is able to build you up, and to support the weak



He used the ones who were to speak His Grace as being the ones who distorted it. I don't see how you can take it any other way?

Bob, you left out my comma man, I was referring to the wolves, THEY being the ones to distrort the grace and give the boot instead of building up and supporting the weak, IOW's.

See my brain works kinda backwards when I write, I'm always trying to catch up and fill in as I'm already thinking of something else.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, I apologized and I do mean it. They accuse me of leaving a lot out too Benjamin but they don't know my mind moves faster than my fingers.

 

[Benjamin]

Well, I apologized and I do mean it. They accuse me of leaving a lot out too Benjamin but they don't know my mind moves faster than my fingers.

No problem Bob, it's even worse when you hit road bumps and jump tracks like me.

 

[Benjamin]

Bob, FTR, on the first page you deleted 2 posts, in which I responded to the first and then quoted of off the second before I saw you had deleted them both, as they just currently said "Too much..." and “again……” and out of courtesy I erased the quote since you had already deleted it along with the first. But now I see you went back and added a completely new response over 30 minutes later, in bold no less, after we were several posts ahead and with the first still completely gone and that makes it look like I was responding to another subject altogether. Now I didn’t save your post #6 which was part of what I first took issue and responded to, but in fairness this was your original post #8 which BTW to my surprise I thought turned around and put on me the very thing I felt you espousing in your deleted #6 post:

You err Benjamin to consider a building the church. It is just a building where the church gather to worship God. Now the door to the church is Jesus for He said "I am the door". Now I don't think its up to you or me to tell Jesus who to let in or keep out. amen,

No wonder all the confusion.

Not holding a grudge, but just wanted to clear that up cuz it makes me look out of wack.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, I hope it is ok now for I don't know what else to say.

 

[saturneptune]

Brother Tom and Bob are correct. The church rolls and membership need to be cleaned up. That has nothing to do with reaching out to the lost, asking them to Sunday School and Church, and praying the Lord brings them to salvation. This is a good thread, as it could have gone the route of another local church vs universal church debate, which always brings up communion.

The other level of the church aside from universal and local, is denominational. This one over the years has been abused. This has nothing to do with church membership as a side note. Why is it that in Acts 2, there is one church, which believers in one accord, one Spirit, and today, we have the Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, (and all sects of it), plus over 900 Protestant (and Baptist for the landmarkers), and all of their subsets? Why is that? It is because I am right and you are wrong. (and vice versa). Which denomination is closest to the Truth? You dont know and I dont know. I am lead to think the denomination I serve in is as close as is possible. No doubt you think your denomination is the same. The bottom line is look at what fallen man has done to one church, and most of the ones we have are pathetic.

One Spirit indwells us all. What happened?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Lord gave Moses these words in the latter part of Exodus 20:24:

in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

If the Pastor is not submitted fully to preaching the inerrant and infallible Word of God (if the preacher does not preach against sin for fear of offending), God's name is not recorded in that church. God will not endorse the preaching of that which is against Hie Divine nature or His Holy Word.

 

[LeBuick]

If the Pastor is not submitted fully to preaching the inerrant and infallible Word of God (if the preacher does not preach against sin for fear of offending), God's name is not recorded in that church. God will not endorse the preaching of that which is against Hie Divine nature or His Holy Word.

Good post saturneptune I think you made some great points.

SFIC, I believe you got to the root of the discussion, inerrant and infallible Word of God seems to be interpreted different by different people. Using this board for example, we can see how one verse gives a different message depending on the reader. Who is right? Who is wrong? Should the body fight against the body because you don't believe exactly like another? I think saturneptune expounded the root when they said,;

Which denomination is closest to the Truth? You dont know and I dont know. I am lead to think the denomination I serve in is as close as is possible. No doubt you think your denomination is the same. The bottom line is look at what fallen man has done to one church, and most of the ones we have are pathetic.

One Spirit indwells us all. What happened?

 

[npetreley]

Which denomination is closest to the Truth? You dont know and I dont know. I am lead to think the denomination I serve in is as close as is possible. No doubt you think your denomination is the same. The bottom line is look at what fallen man has done to one church, and most of the ones we have are pathetic.

One Spirit indwells us all. What happened?

This is closest to the point the preacher was trying to make in the sermon I heard. There is one foundation for the church universal, and that is "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God." I personally think it is important to add the part about "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven" because this statement clearly gives the glory to God, not man. I believe this is an important addition because it is appropriately humbling to the local pastor and congregation. We do not save people. We can and should preach the truth and the foundation, but we have no power to reveal it to a person as truth. God reveals it to whom He pleases.

All the other stuff that separates most denominations is the product of man taking other parts of the Bible and over-emphasizing them. The problem with building a local church on a foundation other than the above is that it goes against: "Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it". Christ taught clearly that the rock upon which He builds His church is that He is Christ, the Son of the Living God, revealed by the Father. The rock isn't speaking in tongues, celebrating the sabbath on saturday, or even baptism. Anyone who builds his local church on these side-issues is building it in vain, even if they gain enough members to create a mega-church.

 

[LeBuick]

I think he was fairly solid... Paul pretty much confirms what he taught.

Why different preachers? Why different denominations?

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Now let's watch God build...

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now that we have a foundation, let's discuss what goes on the foundation;

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

So most of all, make sure it's fire proof (solid in the word of God). And in the end, let's see how we'll give an account;

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Curios, what part did you not agree with?

 

[npetreley]

LeBuick, I'm not going to disagree with any of it. It's Scripture.

 

[LeBuick]

No, no, your original post said, "I didn't agree with all of it, but that was partly his point"

Sounds like he may have purposely went into area's of controversy. He would almost have to if he wanted to make his point. I was more looking at where he went as opposed to which you believed or not. Sounded like an intriguing sermon.

 

[npetreley]

No, no, your original post said, "I didn't agree with all of it, but that was partly his point"

Sounds like he may have purposely went into area's of controversy. He would almost have to if he wanted to make his point. I was more looking at where he went as opposed to which you believed or not. Sounded like an intriguing sermon.

I'm sorry I didn't give more detail. I meant I didn't agree with everything he said. For example, he believed in speaking in tongues, etc., which I don't necessarily agree with (for me, the jury is out on that issue), but his main point was on target. You don't build even a local church around speaking in tongues. You build it on the foundation that is Christ, because it isn't our church (universal), it's His, and He builds it on the rock as I described. If we try to build it on any other foundation, we do so in vain.