So do you believe that God created Jesus, his visible being, His Word PRIOR to all creation?
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Whose Son is YHVH, the Christ?
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So do you believe that God created Jesus, his visible being, His Word PRIOR to all creation?
That shows they are all deity: three divine persons in one God.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Then you too do embrace the Athanasius doctrine of the Trinity - correct? If not, how do you differ?
Are they the same PERSON, or are they the same GOD?
The same WHAT?
There are three persons in one God.
There are three different and distinct persons in one God.
They are not all the same persons. The Father is NOT the Son, and the Son is not the Father. They are not the same, though they are both deity. Likewise for the Spirit. The Spirit plays a different role for he is a separate person, albeit still deity.
There are three persons, all unique in their personality. These three persons exist as one God.
That means they are each unique and separate personalities that can communicate and fellowship with each other on a personal level but inseparably share one united common Divine Substance that makes God to be God
Why do you say "person"?
When a person receives the Holy Spirit, whose Spirit do you say it is?
When a person receives the Holy Spirit, whose Spirit is it?
The reason I say "person" is because the Holy Spirit is a distinct and complete unique personage capable of individual thought, expression and action distinct from the Father and the Son.
The reason I say "person" is because the Holy Spirit is capable of PERSONAL fellowship with us as persons as He is not merely capable but in personal fellowship with the Father and the Son and fellowship requires distinct personal individuality, or otherwise you are merely talking to yourself.
I do not see how we are to call God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit ‘persons’. I have always thought that ‘person’ is about a human being.
Now, how is it you come to believe the Holy Spirit is capable of individual thoughts and expressions?
To be a "person" does not mean one must have a physical body. Angels do not have physical bodies but are spirit and yet each are distinct personages that can convey individuality, unique expression and communication.
The "spirits of just men" in heaven are without physical bodies but they are not without their own distinct unique personalities capable of individual thought and expression as they praise God in His presence.
While God the Son was in the flesh on earth He communicated with the Father and the Father with him as two distinct unique personalities, each capable of individual expression. The Father is spirit as far as His substance in contrast to physical matter and yet He was capable of individual expression with the Son on earth. Likewise, The Holy Spirit is spirit in regard to His substance in contrast to physical matter as His substance but He is individually and uniquely different than the Father and the Son and in fellowship/communion with their personages just as we can be in fellowship with both the Father and the Son.
1 Jn. 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
2 Cor. 3:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
As I said before, I believe ‘person’ to be about a human.
I think I understand what you are saying, however, when God says something, so it is with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. When Jesus says something, so it is with God and the Holy Spirit.
I confirm, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same.
Why no one wants to answer whose Spirit it is that they receive when they are saved?
Why then do they Speak to one another? The Father spoke to the Son from heaven and the Son spoke to the Father and they did not REPEAT THEMSELVES to each other the same words.
The Father sends His Son into the world. Thus the Sender and He whom is being sent are not one and the same or would have us believe The Father sent Himself and then on earth talks to Himself? The Son EXISTS with The Father at his right hand now in heaven and therefore The Son IS NOT The Father while yet being "God's Son."
Both The Father and The Son send the Spirit into His people when they are saved and thus The Spirit is called "The Spirit of Christ" and "The Spirit of God". The Son sits at the right hand of the Father IN HEAVEN and so they are not the same and neither did they send themselves to earth.
In the Baptism of Jesus all three are distinguished from one another and thus are individual distinct from one another. The Voice of the Father was FROM heaven. The Spirit was AS in the form of a dove IN THE AIR while the Son was ON EARTH - three different spheres and three different distinctions.
A "human" is a "person" because a "human" has PERSONALITY TRAITS. Do you think a "human" cease being a "person" when they leave the body and are present with the Lord prior to the resurrection? Are those "spirits of just men made perfect" seen in heaven not "persons" simply because they have no phyysical body?
What are personality traits? They are those things that make you unique and different from others who are capable of personal expression.
Again, I respectfully ask this question. Your previous statement appears to assert that you believe "The Word" or "Christ" was actually created by God the Father prior to the creation of this world. If that is true, then does not that mean you do not believe "The Word" coexisted eternally with the Father and The Holy Spirit but was the first created being by God?
Dear Readers,
First of all, the Elohim (The plural of Eloah, God), who is one in Unity in Deut.6:4, used the Hebrew word ECHAD which refers to a “collective one of MORE THAN ONE ENTITY. So the ONE BEING in that concept is impossible in the light of “ECHAD”.
As I have posted before.... The use of “ECHAD” of Genesis 2:24 best explains the “ECHAD” of Deuteronomy 6:4. Therefore, when Moses said that the husband and wife (TWO BEINGS) would become “ECHAD” (one), that is a “collective one” of two beings.”
Deuteronomy 6:4 attests to this fact: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim, plural referring to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who were all individually called God), is ONE LORD (collectively).
Second, in the New Testament book of John (17:11) we read: “I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.”
Now if the ONENESS of the Father and the Son is a ONENESS in BEING, are they telling me that Jesus was praying to the Father for his disciples that they may become ONE in BEING? Hardly!
Therefore, the “ONE” in 1 John 5:7, John 10:30, and John 17:11 cannot refer to ONE in BEING. Why? Because Deut. 6:4 gave us already a hint that it is not and John 17:11 proves that it is not.
As I have said before, ONE IN UNITY is used in the case of Gen. 2:24, when the husband and wife were called ONE by God. How can the two in number, be One? This is possible only in the sense of UNITY.
We can understand John 10:30 in this sense, “I and my Father are one.” One in Unity not in number. It is also in this sense that the thousands can be one like the builders of the tower of Babel in Gen 11:6. Even the millions of Christians can be one in this sense according to John 17:21.
Unless of course our Apologizers here will agree that there are three separate persons in the Trinity or there are three beings in the Trinity then a “collective one” is possible.
In other words, “collective one” or “compound unity” can only be applied to anything that is at least numerically TWO entities. But God is NOT numerically THREE entities, according to their distorted traditional religious view. God is numerically ONE entity based on their doctrinal faith.
Therefore, obviously, they are misapplying the usage of the Hebrew word “ECHAD” (collective one) in Deut. 6:4 to their flawed traditional concept of Trinity.
:godisgood:
First of all, the Elohim (The plural of Eloah, God), who is one in Unity in Deut.6:4, used the Hebrew word ECHAD which refers to a “collective one of MORE THAN ONE ENTITY. So the ONE BEING in that concept is impossible in the light of “ECHAD”.
As I have posted before.... The use of “ECHAD” of Genesis 2:24 best explains the “ECHAD” of Deuteronomy 6:4. Therefore, when Moses said that the husband and wife (TWO BEINGS) would become “ECHAD” (one), that is a “collective one” of two beings.”
Deuteronomy 6:4 attests to this fact: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim, plural referring to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who were all individually called God), is ONE LORD (collectively).
Second, in the New Testament book of John (17:11) we read: “I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.”
Now if the ONENESS of the Father and the Son is a ONENESS in BEING, are they telling me that Jesus was praying to the Father for his disciples that they may become ONE in BEING? Hardly!
Therefore, the “ONE” in 1 John 5:7, John 10:30, and John 17:11 cannot refer to ONE in BEING. Why? Because Deut. 6:4 gave us already a hint that it is not and John 17:11 proves that it is not.
As I have said before, ONE IN UNITY is used in the case of Gen. 2:24, when the husband and wife were called ONE by God. How can the two in number, be One? This is possible only in the sense of UNITY.
We can understand John 10:30 in this sense, “I and my Father are one.” One in Unity not in number. It is also in this sense that the thousands can be one like the builders of the tower of Babel in Gen 11:6. Even the millions of Christians can be one in this sense according to John 17:21.
Unless of course our Apologizers here will agree that there are three separate persons in the Trinity or there are three beings in the Trinity then a “collective one” is possible.
In other words, “collective one” or “compound unity” can only be applied to anything that is at least numerically TWO entities. But God is NOT numerically THREE entities, according to their distorted traditional religious view. God is numerically ONE entity based on their doctrinal faith.
Therefore, obviously, they are misapplying the usage of the Hebrew word “ECHAD” (collective one) in Deut. 6:4 to their flawed traditional concept of Trinity.
:godisgood:
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