Whose Son is YHVH, the Christ?

[Yeshua1]

I only speak the Word of God.

your version of it, just as Joseph Smith and pastor Russell did!

I say they are three and that they are the same.

All 3 are indeed God, are you saying that they are the SAMe being?

I do not deny we are saved by faith, but the Bible says, "faith alone" does NOT save.

faith does not save anyone, its the shed blood/deasth of jesus that provided the salvation God offers, faith accesses that! NO good works invoved in getting us saved!

I do NOT deny a bodily resurrection. The Bible says we will have a spiritual BODY, that is not just saying a 'spirit', but a spiritual Body. When a seed is buried in the ground, does the exact thing that is buried come up? No. What is buried does not look the same as what comes up.

Do you hold that God will raise up the SAME physical body that we died in, and that He will transform that same body into a new glorified form?

You keep saying the answers, but they are NOT what the bible actually teaches!

 

[The Biblicist]

You have been exposed Biblicist.

No bombardment of posts by you will hide the Truth.

Anyone who can see, they will be able to see that you speak falseness.

I pray that even one reader will be strengthened in the Truth.

Below is Moriah's proof that I believed and have stated that all must first die and be resurrected in order to be changed:

Originally Posted by Moriah
Here again is what Biblicist said:

Furthermore, the term "raised" makes no sense unless it has reference to that body placed "down" in the ground. The term resurrection" means to "rise up" and you cannot bring up what never went down.


Look at it!!!

1. Can the term "raised" possibly refer to the living????? No!

2. Can the term "resurrection" possibly refer to the living???? No!

I am simply stating the obvious!

Nowhere in this statement do I ever make the silly and stupid statement that ALL MUST FIRST DIE and be buried before the change in 1 Cor. 15:42-44 can occur! That is all Moriah's lying manufactured words!

However, Moriah and Seve deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ because they deny what was resurrected ascended into glory. "THIS SAME JESUS" they saw was the resurrected Jesus they witnessed for 40 days after the resurrection who invited them to thrust their hands into his "FLESH"! The angels said "THIS SAME JESUS" they saw go away would come back "IN LIKE MANNER as they saw him go". Can't get any clearer than that!

 

[annsni]

If Jesus only had a spiritual body after He rose from the dead, how was Thomas able to touch his wounds? How was He able to eat?

 

[Yeshua1]

If Jesus only had a spiritual body after He rose from the dead, how was Thomas able to touch his wounds? How was He able to eat?

where did his other body go? why didn't critics produce it back than and end the movement dead in its tracks?

 

[Seve]

Dear Independent Readers,

Moriah is correct on the specifics / contentions below.

Christ was NOT in the FLESH after his resurrection but Glorified Body.... the same Glorified body he had when he apppeared in person (physically) unto Abraham, Isaac among many others in the old testament....... in fact, even during the time when he wrestled with Jacob. Rememeber, the Son was the Great I AM of old... the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.

Moriah is also correct to say that NO flesh and blood can "enter" (paraphasing) or "inherit" the kindom of God...

If you didn't inherit the Kingdom of God to begin with.... then you have no right to be there.... you can NOT enter the place since it is strictly the place for those who have uncorruptable or Glorified bodies (Holy) only.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Don't be deceived!!! Pray for more wisdom and understanding.

:godisgood:

Dear Readers,

I try not to respond to strawman's argument based only on made up stories and distorted premises. Biblicist and his followers are very notorious about that. A complete waste of time..... Their spiritual understanding of the Scripture is woefully lacking....


:BangHead:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The fault is NOT in the Bible, nor the Spirit, but person reading it!

Exactly so how can I trust your interpretation and for that matter Seve's?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

A person can claim ANYTHING but that does not make it so! However, you are treating it as it is not only so but the root of his error is that the believes final in authority. That is simply just bogus reasoning.

Not at all as Seve real final authority (Just like yours) is not actually the scriptures alone as they don't interpret themselves but his ability to reason out the meaning of Scripture.

The problem is not in the sufficiency of the scriptures to provide all that is sufficient for truth

I like your wording because for one I agree scritures are sufficient in all truth. What you clearly are avoiding is that its not the sufficiency of scriptures I have an issue with but the interpretation of scripture. The ability to access the truth the scriptures reveal. Accordingly each man relies on their own intellect to understand scripture and thus in actuality have made themselves the sole authority when it comes to interpretation of a passage of scripture.

but in Seve as an interpretter of the scriptures. If 2 Tim. 3:16-17 means anything it means at minimum that the scriptures are SUFFICIENT for doctrine, instruction, correction, reproof or it means NOTHING at all.

Your statement is misleading because what 2 Timothy actually says is not the "minimum that the scriptures are SUFFICIENT doctrine, instruction, correction, reproof." But what it does say is "All Scripture is breathed out by God and PROFITABLE for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

 

[Seve]

Dear Readers,

It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

:godisgood:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Dear Readers,

I try not to respond to strawman's argument based only on made up stories and distorted premises. Biblicist and his followers are very notorious about that. A complete waste of time..... Their spiritual understanding of the Scripture is woefully lacking....


:BangHead:

Do you believe Jesus physically rose from the dead?

 

[annsni]

Dear Readers,

I try not to respond to strawman's argument based only on made up stories and distorted premises. Biblicist and his followers are very notorious about that. A complete waste of time..... Their spiritual understanding of the Scripture is woefully lacking....


:BangHead:

Why can't you answer my question? How did Thomas touch a non-physical body?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Dear Readers,

It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

:godisgood:

The problem you face here Seve is very simple. Most people disagree with your intepretation of scripture. You and everyone who disagrees with you both use scripture to support their position. To what then can you appeal to determine which group has the correct sense of the scripture? The correct interpretation? Historically, you have been proven false as Christianity has already dealt with your particular heresy in the early centuries of the Church. Scientifically, miracles do not act in the normal manner as nature hense the word miracles. It is out of the ordinary. Though scientifically speaking no one has found the body of Jesus Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

Dear Readers,

It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

:godisgood:

That is very true. Appealing to outside sources is a non-ending and digressive cycle as you lower yourself to UNINSPIRED group opinions.

The problem Seve is that your interpretation of JHVH and the resurrection do not harmonize with Biblical context. I have already presented the Biblical evidence but neither you nor Moriah will respond to it. Instead, you ignore it, and simply repeat your false interpretations like mantra's.

 

[Seve]

The problem you face here Seve is very simple. Most people disagree with your intepretation of scripture. You and everyone who disagrees with you both use scripture to support their position. To what then can you appeal to determine which group has the correct sense of the scripture? The correct interpretation? Historically, you have been proven false as Christianity has already dealt with your particular heresy in the early centuries of the Church. Scientifically, miracles do not act in the normal manner as nature hense the word miracles. It is out of the ordinary. Though scientifically speaking no one has found the body of Jesus Christ.

I am sorry to disagree with you false assumption. History had NEVER dealt the teachings I have posted in this forum.... not until few years ago when I started posting in other forums.... and our future history will prove me correctly!!!

Example.....

The teaching that YHVH is the Christ himself, the Son of invisible God Father. YHVH is the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.... He was sent into this world AGAIN and became flesh..... also became known as Jesus Christ in the NT.

No man knows the name of the invisible God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, at this time.

 

[Seve]

That is very true. Appealing to outside sources is a non-ending and digressive cycle as you lower yourself to UNINSPIRED group opinions.

The problem Seve is that your interpretation of JHVH and the resurrection do not harmonize with Biblical context. I have already presented the Biblical evidence but neither you nor Moriah will respond to it. Instead, you ignore it, and simply repeat your false interpretations like mantra's.

You have NOT presented anything but your own made up distorted stories for fallacious argument. You could NOT even present a complete quote of others without distorting it or editing to your advantage, correct? I guess repeating your lies will give you more credibility? Yeah right.....:laugh:

TRY AGAIN.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I am sorry to disagree with you false assumption. History had NEVER dealt the teachings I have posted in this forum.... not until few years ago when I started posting in other forums.... and our future history will prove me correctly!!!

You have not stated any new approaches to scripture. Have you read Ireneaus who lived and wrote around 175 to 185 AD? From his work adversus haereses I have quoted one of the gnostic heretics' view of God which Irenaeus quotes. You stated that you agree with that view. When it comes to the resurrection of Jesus being just a ghost or changing into something else when he got to heaven once again you have followed in the gnostic footsteps. So in fact History has delt with your view. Have you studied Christian history? You will see that in fact the book of Ecclesiates is correct saying "there is nothing new under the sun". You are not paving the way for a future development in Christianity but holding to an old heresy.

 

[annsni]

I am sorry to disagree with you false assumption. History had NEVER dealt the teachings I have posted in this forum.... not until few years ago when I started posting in other forums.... and our future history will prove me correctly!!!

Example.....

The teaching that YHVH is the Christ himself, the Son of invisible God Father. YHVH is the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.... He was sent into this world AGAIN and became flesh..... also became known as Jesus Christ in the NT.

No man knows the name of the invisible God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, at this time.

So in other words, you preach a new and different gospel?

And I am still waiting on how Thomas could touch a spirit.

 

[The Biblicist]

The teaching that YHVH is the Christ himself, the Son of invisible God Father. YHVH is the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.... He was sent into this world and became flesh..... and also became known as Jesus Christ in the NT..

Psalm 110:1 proves you are wrong! David writes by inspiration and David wrote that YHVH spoke to "my Adonai" and it is "Adonai" that is Christ the "Son of David."

The Hebrew makes this clear:

Psalm 110:1 ¶ <07272> לרגליך <01916> הדם <0341> איביך <07896> אשׂית <05704> עד <03225> לימיני <03427> שׂב <0113> לאדני <03068> יהוה <05002> נאם <04210> מזמור <01732> לדוד (110:1)

The English makes this clear:

1 ¶ «A Psalm <04210> of David <01732>.» The LORD <03068> said <05002> (8803) unto my Lord <0113>, Sit <03427> (8798) thou at my right hand <03225>, until I make <07896> (8799) thine enemies <0341> (8802) thy footstool <01916> <07272>.


I put the Strongs reference numbers in so you can check out the exact Hebrew. As you will see you are mistaken. YHVH is actually speaking to "my adonai" and not as you have it in reverse. This text destroys your whole theory. But so does Isaiah 44:6,8 with 43:10-11 and many other texts.

 

[Seve]

So in other words, you preach a new and different gospel?

And I am still waiting on how Thomas could touch a spirit.

I guess you need to read it again below very slowly .... or get somebody to help you understand what you are reading...

Dear Independent Readers,

Moriah is correct on the specifics / contentions below.

Christ was NOT in the FLESH after his resurrection but Glorified Body.... the same Glorified body he had when he apppeared in person (physically) unto Abraham, Isaac among many others in the old testament....... in fact, even during the time when he wrestled with Jacob. Rememeber, the Son was the Great I AM of old... the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.

Moriah is also correct to say that NO flesh and blood can "enter" (paraphasing) or "inherit" the kindom of God...

If you didn't inherit the Kingdom of God to begin with.... then you have no right to be there.... you can NOT enter the place since it is strictly the place for those who have uncorruptable or Glorified bodies (Holy) only.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Don't be deceived!!! Pray for more wisdom and understanding.

:godisgood:

 

[The Biblicist]

I guess you need to read it again below very slowly .... or get somebody to help you understand what you are reading...

You position denies the atonement of Christ. It denies the resurrection of Christ. If Christ's physical body of flesh were left to corrupt in the grave then sin and death would be the victors:

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The physical FLESH body of Christ rose from the grave and that is why death will not have the victory over our physical flesh bodies:

Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

That is the "SAME JESUS" they handled, and then saw ascend into heaven of which the angel said:

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have SEEN him go into heaven.

Go back to Sunday school and learn the Scriptures.

 

[Seve]

Psalm 110:1 proves you are wrong! David writes by inspiration and David wrote that YHVH spoke to "my Adonai" and it is "Adonai" that is Christ the "Son of David."

The Hebrew makes this clear:

The English makes this clear:

Once again, your argument is fallacious. You have been caught on your own BIG MOUTH piece, in trying to be slick with your distortion of the text....... therefore, your appeal for continuance is over ruled. Game is over. See and review the below the exerpts for your further study...

While the term “Lord” is used interchangeably to address the Title of both the Father and the Son, I am very much aware of the rendition of the Hebrew Scholars in ref. to the cited text above (Psalms 110). That's exactly why the issue has been brought forth to this thread (topic).

The questions, however, that need to be answered to prove your case… in analyzing the context of the actual text itself…. are the following.

1) Who was the actual Speaker of the cited text, ref. Psalms 110 in the Old Testament?
2) Who was the Speaker’ Lord..... referring to as… “ MY LORD” in the Old Testament?
3) When was the fulfillment of the prophetic vision took place, after Christ ressurection?

Now if you can honestly answer the questions I brought forth above correctly, then, your objection to my posts will have a basis to stand on, for a change.

However, let me warn you that only willingly ignorant will always stumble to this revelation of Biblical Truth.

David says that it was JHVH that is speaking and He is speaing to "my ADONAI" not to my "JHVH
.... Again, the speaker is YHVH (LORD) not Adonai ("my Lord")

Dear Readers,

Obviously, that’s another malicious vain attempt by Biblicist to cover up their flawed doctrinal understanding of the Scripture…..distorting and twisting the text in attempt to response to our simple questions above.

However, based on Biblicist own answer (see underlined quote) above, clearly……. regardless how hard he tried to twist the text to suit his likings – Biblicist is forced to admit to the fact, that the actual Speaker of the text was David himself….. telling us the story about his prophetic vision he had in the OT…… regarding the conversation that took place between the LORD and his (David’s) Lord (YHVH), accordingly – ref. Psalms 110.

As we all know, David only known Lord in the Old Testament was YHVH himself, the God of the Jews. The God of their forefathers.

As I have warned before, only willingly ignorant always stumble to this Truth. And Biblicist is a living proof of it in my view. However, I will just let the readers to be the better judge of it..... Oh well....

:BangHead:

Get some help Biblicist and don't project your own inadequacies and weaknesses on us.