Whosoever Will

[olegig]

Mind if I ask you.
When you speak of "saved", do you mind if I ask you, "saved from what" ?

I don't mind at all if you ask, its one way I know I am doing a poor job expressing myself. :smilewinkgrin:

I agree that many times the word "saved" in context means someone is saved from something.
I see this use common in the OT before the cross as exampled in Matt 10:22 and 24:13 and in Luke 16 we also see even father Abraham down in paradise "saved" from hell; but not as yet in heaven for the blood cannot be spread before it was shed.
(Personally I see it as degrading the finished work of the cross to put someone at the throne of God before the cross.)

However we also see the word "saved" as meaning saved to something as in Rom 10:9.
When I ask the question of how a person would respond if someone today asked: "What must I do to be saved?" I am using the term in the sense of Rom 10:9 for the blood has now been shed and can be spread.

Do you think OldRegular will answer?
How would you answer?

Since the OP deals with the doctrines of salvation, isn't this related to the OP?

 

[olegig]

To believe means to have faith in, so one must have faith before he believes.

The above does have a nice "ring" to it; but it does not seem to follow the order of scripture.
Please see:

Galatians 2:16 (King James Version)
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It seems from the above first one believes in Jesus Christ, then one is justified by the faith of Christ.
The order would seem to be first we believe, then we are gifted the faith to know we will be raised from the dead just as God raised Jesus from the dead.

Have you ever noticed that anyone who is truly saved, knows someday they will be raise incorruptible and given a glorious body?
Amazing what a little belief will do for anyone!!!! 2Tim 1:12 1John 3:2

 

[quantumfaith]

Jesus Christ came to die for sinners or the ungodly. Neither Scripture you posted states that HE came to die for all the ungodly sinners.

Scripture also says of Jesus Christ:

Luke 5:32. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Does this mean there were righteous people on earth. If so it contradicts the following Scripture:

Romans 3:10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

And we know that Scripture does not contradict itself!

Incidentally you did not respond to the request in the OP: I would appreciate those who hold the above Freewill doctrines showing how the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation is contrary to the above passage or contradicts any other passage they use to defend their beliefs!

I dont get your point of Luke 5:32. Seems clear to me that Jesus was using perhaps a touch of sarcasm in response to the "indictment" of the Pharisees and teachers of the law when he spoke these words. He "inverted" the indictment right back on their claims.

 

[quantumfaith]

I John 2:2

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (NIV)

 

[OldRegular]

I dont get your point of Luke 5:32. Seems clear to me that Jesus was using perhaps a touch of sarcasm in response to the "indictment" of the Pharisees and teachers of the law when he spoke these words. He "inverted" the indictment right back on their claims.

I am not sure to whom the post to which you are responding was addressed. I suspect that Jesus Christ may have been using sarcasm in Luke 5:22. Nevertheless, the statement is true as written, particularly when understood in light of Romans 3:10.

 

[OldRegular]

I John 2:2

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (NIV)

Are you implying universal salvation?

 

[quantumfaith]

I am not implying "universalism", but I am implying universal opportunity of salvation.

 

[quantumfaith]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
Jesus Christ came to die for sinners or the ungodly. Neither Scripture you posted states that HE came to die for all the ungodly sinners.

Scripture also says of Jesus Christ:

Luke 5:32. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Does this mean there were righteous people on earth. If so it contradicts the following Scripture:

Romans 3:10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

And we know that Scripture does not contradict itself! In algebra, is likened to attempting to add x's and y's, unlike variables.

Perhaps we are talking around each other on this issue. In Luke, it is my contention that Jesus is being "sarcastic" toward the Pharisees and Teachers, in that, they only "think" and "assume" and take great pride in the fact that they are considered and consider themselves to be righteous. While Jesus is taking "a stab" at that pride. Jesus, rather has come to call those "sinners" to repentance, those who humbly recognizec their position before God.

And yes, no contradiction exists, there is no "direct correlation" to the use of "righteous" by Paul and Jesus use of the term in Luke's gospel.

 

[RAdam]

The above does have a nice "ring" to it; but it does not seem to follow the order of scripture.
Please see:

Galatians 2:16 (King James Version)
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It seems from the above first one believes in Jesus Christ, then one is justified by the faith of Christ.
The order would seem to be first we believe, then we are gifted the faith to know we will be raised from the dead just as God raised Jesus from the dead.

Have you ever noticed that anyone who is truly saved, knows someday they will be raise incorruptible and given a glorious body?
Amazing what a little belief will do for anyone!!!! 2Tim 1:12 1John 3:2

To be justified is to be declared righteous. Yes, we believe, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ.

The greek word translated "believe" is pisteuo. Pisteuo is from the root word pistis. Pistis is translated "faith" 239 times. You cannot divorce belief from faith. And yes, the scripture you referred to from Galatians 2 uses pisteuo for believed.

 

[OldRegular]

I don't mind at all if you ask, its one way I know I am doing a poor job expre
When I ask the question of how a person would respond if someone today asked: "What must I do to be saved?"

Do you think OldRegular will answer?

I would not answer "Believe on the Apostle Paul and you will be saved as you hyper dispensationalists seem to teach!":jesus::jesus::jesus::wavey:

 

[pinoybaptist]

I am not implying "universalism", but I am implying universal opportunity of salvation.

so in short all that preparation for a Savior and all that the Savior did amounts to "okay, I'm done, you all grab your chance for salvation, now" ?

 

[psalms109:31]

Blaming God

We have been blaming God from the beginning. It was the women that you created, it was the snake that you created. You created me this way.

It is time to blame ourselves and ask God to forgive our sins. Repent and believe. Not only is He sacrificed for our sins, but He was the lamb the sins was placed on and He took it away. He has been risen on the third day. To place our sins on Him and believe that He can do what He says He can do.

 

[olegig]

I would not answer "Believe on the Apostle Paul and you will be saved as you hyper dispensationalists seem to teach!":jesus::jesus::jesus::wavey:

Before you make a statement like the one above, perhaps you need to show where I have said one should "Believe on the Apostle Paul and you will be saved"
And you might want to be quick about it so someone won't take you to be a liar. (Just trying to protect your reputation here.)

However I do encourage folks to take to heart the last message from our Lord Jesus Christ as revealed through the Apostle Paul.

OldRegular, do you believe Paul had a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ? Do you believe Paul's words are scripture?

Ok, now we know what you would not tell the lost, but I am interested in what you would tell them.
Don't you agree we Christians are to bear fruit? Aren't we supposed to witness to the lost?

OLdRegular, what do you tell a lost man who is inquiring of salvation?

How do you interpret the following:

Romans 7:4 (King James Version)
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[OldRegular]

:godisgood::jesus::jesus::wavey:

 

[OldRegular]

I am not implying "universalism", but I am implying universal opportunity of salvation.

Scripture teaches "whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." but the only ones who really will take of the "water of life" are those who have been chosen by GOD before the foundation of the world, whose names have been written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, never to be removed.

 

[RAdam]

We have been blaming God from the beginning. It was the women that you created, it was the snake that you created. You created me this way.

It is time to blame ourselves and ask God to forgive our sins. Repent and believe. Not only is He sacrificed for our sins, but He was the lamb the sins was placed on and He took it away. He has been risen on the third day. To place our sins on Him and believe that He can do what He says He can do.

So which is it? Did He take away sins or not?

 

[psalms109:31]

Sorry

I work two Jobs and I can't communicate as often as a want.

John the Baptist say's He takes away the sins of the world!

but still the world will not be saved because of unbelief.

 

[RAdam]

So He took away sin, but not really. He saved His people, but not really.

 

[psalms109:31]

His people

His people are believers so He has, but it is for the world.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I was one of the ungodly, I don't know about you but I will assume you were also! And it doesn't say that HE died for all the ungodly.

So He died for SOME ungodly people and not for others? Then why does Romans 10:13 say that "WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved"?

Apparently we're not reading the same Bible since the one I read says that Christ died for the lost. It does NOT say that he died only for SOME of the lost. In that case, NO one could ever be sure that they are one of the saved. The best we could do is hope.