Why are Baptists so divisive?

[RCT]

Since it is the start of a new year, I think it’s about time us Baptists should start to ask ourselves what we can do to not be so divisive among each other and I’m not only talking about what takes place on this board.

I have always identified myself as a Baptist and I appreciate the rich history of Baptists and the commitment to scripture. Lately, however, I’ve been somewhat embarrassed to call myself a Baptist.

For a while I have been attending a mid-week Bible study at a local nondenominational church and have been seriously considering making it my permanent home church. Recently I walked out of my Baptist church for the last time. In fact I expect that it will be the very last time I step foot in a Baptist church until I start to see some positive changes in our denomination.

With that came a sense of freedom. No longer do I have to be concerned about what English translation someone is using. No longer do I have to be concerned about what type of worship music someone listens to. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone is wearing a suit and tie or a jeans and tee shirt. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone wants to have a beer every once in a while. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP or perhaps none at all.

Let’s be better in 2025.

 

[ParticularWife]

With that came a sense of freedom. No longer do I have to be concerned about what English translation someone is using. No longer do I have to be concerned about what type of worship music someone listens to. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone is wearing a suit and tie or a jeans and tee shirt. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone wants to have a beer every once in a while. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP or perhaps none at all.

I think people should dress well for church, as a sign of seriousness and as a mark of general conduct. I am not particular on translations and never have been. We only use hymns, and I think that's correct. I am a wet Baptist, but most people at my church don't drink. People don't have to be Calvinists to be Christian, but they should be Calvinists because it's Biblical. Sound doctrine is important. I support strong church discipline and actually want the pastor investigating everyone's beliefs and conduct. John Gill once disciplined a parishioner for an incorrect Trinitarian doctrine of eternal relations of generation, and I think this should be normal conduct in a church.
On top of that, I don't even attend a Baptist church, I go to the OPC, but if I did attend a Baptist church it would probably be one you wouldn't like!
And this is why different denominations exist. Nothing you brought up is grounds for anathematizing a church, but I frankly just disagree with the premise and worldview of the low church Baptists. I think it's not a good way to organize the church and maintain holiness. There are some things that we just can't tolerate in our congregations which, as congregationalists, Baptists really don't have anything to say back to.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP

Why are Baptists so divisive?​

I Timothy 4:1; "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times
some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits,
and doctrines of devils;"

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

People don't have to be Calvinists to be Christian, but they should be Calvinists because it's Biblical. Sound doctrine is important.

Wow.

I support strong church discipline and actually want the pastor investigating everyone's beliefs and conduct.

Wow.

John Gill once disciplined a parishioner for an incorrect Trinitarian doctrine of eternal relations of generation, and I think this should be normal conduct in a church.

Wow.

I believe you are just about worth you weight in 'Baptist', with all that.

Stick with The Stuff!

Thanks. Praise the Lord!

 

[ParticularWife]

I believe you are just about worth you weight in 'Baptist', with all that.

Stick with The Stuff!

Thanks. Praise the Lord!

I was blessed by the Lord with a good, Christian education. I know from experience that most people are not being taught any of this in church or by their ministries. I try to be long suffering with my Presbyterian and Baptist friends who don't have the benefit of solid ecclesiology, but they need to get some soon. I left the PCA for a variety of reasons, but the lack of church discipline was #1.

 

[JonC]

The reason Baptists are so divisive is "Baptist" is not a denomination but a common belief shared among denominations. The issue is like asking why Presbyterians and Methodists are do divided, or why Orthodox and Roman Catholics are so divisive.

Looking to the New Testament churches we can easily see that there were divisions between congregations while not within the congregation, and churches were united in Christ despite differences (e.g., the church in Jerusalem and the church in Rome).

 

[ParticularWife]

The reason Baptists are so divisive is "Baptist" is not a denomination but a common belief shared among denominations. The issue is like asking why Presbyterians and Methodists are do divided, or why Orthodox and Roman Catholics are so divisive.

I think most Baptist formal denominations and NDs actually are reducible to a few denominations proper.

Looking to the New Testament churches we can easily see that there were divisions between congregations while not within the congregation, and churches were united in Christ despite differences (e.g., the church in Jerusalem and the church in Rome).

 

[John of Japan]

I was blessed by the Lord with a good, Christian education. I know from experience that most people are not being taught any of this in church or by their ministries. I try to be long suffering with my Presbyterian and Baptist friends who don't have the benefit of solid ecclesiology, but they need to get some soon. I left the PCA for a variety of reasons, but the lack of church discipline was #1.

Many Baptist churches practice church discipline, including the one I serve God in. Are you familiar with the Baptist distinctives? None of them address church discipline, because having or not having it is not what makes a Baptist.

 

[John of Japan]

Since it is the start of a new year, I think it’s about time us Baptists should start to ask ourselves what we can do to not be so divisive among each other and I’m not only talking about what takes place on this board.

I have always identified myself as a Baptist and I appreciate the rich history of Baptists and the commitment to scripture. Lately, however, I’ve been somewhat embarrassed to call myself a Baptist.

For a while I have been attending a mid-week Bible study at a local nondenominational church and have been seriously considering making it my permanent home church. Recently I walked out of my Baptist church for the last time. In fact I expect that it will be the very last time I step foot in a Baptist church until I start to see some positive changes in our denomination.

With that came a sense of freedom. No longer do I have to be concerned about what English translation someone is using. No longer do I have to be concerned about what type of worship music someone listens to. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone is wearing a suit and tie or a jeans and tee shirt. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone wants to have a beer every once in a while. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP or perhaps none at all.

Let’s be better in 2025.

If you don't think you'll ever set foot in a Baptist church again, I'm puzzled. Why are you here in a Baptist forum? (Which by the way requires you to be a Baptist to post here.)

 

[ParticularWife]

Many Baptist churches practice church discipline, including the one I serve God in. Are you familiar with the Baptist distinctives? None of them address church discipline, because having or not having it is not what makes a Baptist.

I am a Baptist, though I attend a Presbyterian Church. The issue of discipline is not denominational, it's more people being afraid to actually do their job for fear of upsetting unrepentant sinners.

 

[John of Japan]

I am a Baptist, though I attend a Presbyterian Church. The issue of discipline is not denominational, it's more people being afraid to actually do their job for fear of upsetting unrepentant sinners.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[JonC]

I think most Baptist formal denominations and NDs actually are reducible to a few denominations proper.

I don't think most are denominations (my view).

I belong to a SBC (Southern Baptist) church and having moved around I can tell you they are not a denomination (although they often misuse the word). An independent Baptist church is Southern Baptist if they decide to contribute to the SBC mission program. They will be excluded from the convention of churches if they hold some beliefs. But there is no oversight, no program, no governing body exterior to the local congregation. Church structure, doctrine, and government differs among SBC churches. I have attended IFB churches as well. Some have been exactly like SBC churches, others a bit legalistic, and a couple I worried about approaching cult status. Those are the only two I can definitively say are not a denomination as, other than a couple of churches that called themselves "non-denominational) these are the only ones I've attended on a regular basis.

A "denomination proper" has to meet the definition of a denomination. A "denomination" is "a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices."

So it could depend on how one defines "united" and "beliefs and practices". One could think that any church that recognizes a sister church is a denomination. But I think that too broad. It seems to me that there has to be something more formal than cooperation or shared beliefs to make a denomination.

That said, I don't think denominations are a bad thing either. They give me a start when looking for a church home. I at least know what congregations may have in common.

Maybe "flavor" would be better than "denomination" when it comes to Baptists.

 

[JonC]

With that came a sense of freedom. No longer do I have to be concerned about what English translation someone is using. No longer do I have to be concerned about what type of worship music someone listens to. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone is wearing a suit and tie or a jeans and tee shirt. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone wants to have a beer every once in a while. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP or perhaps none at all.

This seems odd to me. I've been a Baptist over 40 years. We've (the churches I've attended) have never been concerned about the translation people use (it seems the most used are the NIV, NKJV, NASB, and ESV....probably the NIV being the most popular), never been concerned about the style of worship music, never cared about what people wear as long as they are not naked (I usually wear jeans, shirt, shoes, socks and underwear), never concerned about having a beer (although drunkenness is a sin), and never been concerned about somebody being a Calvinist (regardless of points) or free-will guy (regardless of articles).

It sounds to me like you have had a bad experience with the congregations you have attended. It is a mistake to lump all Baptist churches into one category.

 

[Van]

Scripture tells us our local churches are populated with both "wheat" and "tares," those who have been born anew, and those who believe they have been born anew, or simply make that claim. Some of these secretly introduce (or advocate what has been secretly introduced before) destructive heresies. The solution is not acceptance of false doctrine, but a willingness to cling to the truth.

The OP addressed division over seemingly superficial matters, appropriate dress, worship service music, or abstaining from mind altering substances.

Our divisions are far deeper than that.

1) Does God know everything imaginable, or only what He has chosen to know?

2) Are the lost innately able to understand spiritual milk, or must they be enabled by irresistible or prevenient grace?

3) Can our choices alter the outcome of our lives, or were we damned or saved from all eternity for all eternity?

4) Did Christ die as a ransom for all humanity, or only for individuals chosen before creation?

I could go on but you get the idea.

Scripture says we are to teach disciples all that Christ commanded. But if I asked for a list, most posters could not list more than a dozen.

We quibble because we are unwilling to engage in study, but instead proudly proclaim, "My way or the highway!"

 

[Reynolds]

Since it is the start of a new year, I think it’s about time us Baptists should start to ask ourselves what we can do to not be so divisive among each other and I’m not only talking about what takes place on this board.

I have always identified myself as a Baptist and I appreciate the rich history of Baptists and the commitment to scripture. Lately, however, I’ve been somewhat embarrassed to call myself a Baptist.

For a while I have been attending a mid-week Bible study at a local nondenominational church and have been seriously considering making it my permanent home church. Recently I walked out of my Baptist church for the last time. In fact I expect that it will be the very last time I step foot in a Baptist church until I start to see some positive changes in our denomination.

With that came a sense of freedom. No longer do I have to be concerned about what English translation someone is using. No longer do I have to be concerned about what type of worship music someone listens to. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone is wearing a suit and tie or a jeans and tee shirt. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone wants to have a beer every once in a while. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP or perhaps none at all.

Let’s be better in 2025.

Yep, Go to a Church that does not hold to sound doctrine. Sounds fun.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yep, Go to a Church that does not hold to sound doctrine. Sounds fun.

It’s not a church,it’s a community center.

 

[David Lamb]

I don't think most are denominations (my view).

I belong to a SBC (Southern Baptist) church and having moved around I can tell you they are not a denomination (although they often misuse the word). An independent Baptist church is Southern Baptist if they decide to contribute to the SBC mission program. They will be excluded from the convention of churches if they hold some beliefs. But there is no oversight, no program, no governing body exterior to the local congregation. Church structure, doctrine, and government differs among SBC churches. I have attended IFB churches as well. Some have been exactly like SBC churches, others a bit legalistic, and a couple I worried about approaching cult status. Those are the only two I can definitively say are not a denomination as, other than a couple of churches that called themselves "non-denominational) these are the only ones I've attended on a regular basis.

A "denomination proper" has to meet the definition of a denomination. A "denomination" is "a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices."

So it could depend on how one defines "united" and "beliefs and practices". One could think that any church that recognizes a sister church is a denomination. But I think that too broad. It seems to me that there has to be something more formal than cooperation or shared beliefs to make a denomination.

That said, I don't think denominations are a bad thing either. They give me a start when looking for a church home. I at least know what congregations may have in common.

Maybe "flavor" would be better than "denomination" when it comes to Baptists.

I agree about Baptist not being a denomination. One of the Baptist distinctives is the autonomy under God of each local church, so although a local baptist church may link with others in a regional or national grouping, this is voluntary, and the groupings have no authority over the local churches. Here in the UK, some local Baptist churches are affiliated to the Baptist Union of Great Britain and Norther Ireland, some with Grace Baptist Assembly, and others with the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches. There can be no such thing as a Baptist equivalent of an archbishop or pope!

 

[JesusFan]

This seems odd to me. I've been a Baptist over 40 years. We've (the churches I've attended) have never been concerned about the translation people use (it seems the most used are the NIV, NKJV, NASB, and ESV....probably the NIV being the most popular), never been concerned about the style of worship music, never cared about what people wear as long as they are not naked (I usually wear jeans, shirt, shoes, socks and underwear), never concerned about having a beer (although drunkenness is a sin), and never been concerned about somebody being a Calvinist (regardless of points) or free-will guy (regardless of articles).

It sounds to me like you have had a bad experience with the congregations you have attended. It is a mistake to lump all Baptist churches into one category.

There are though indeed very strict Baptist churches who love to major on the minors, such as KJVO, Tongues or not, worship music only out of hymnals, forget any upbeat "devil rocl" contemporary worship music, wither must be Calvinists or free grace, must wear suit and tie etc!

Before changing to Baptist circles, was a teaching Elder in AOG, and one time had a fellow Elder really react strongly to us allowing here up North mixed teen bathing, and yet he though was great to still be able to chew tobacco or smoke a cigar

 

[Judith]

Since it is the start of a new year, I think it’s about time us Baptists should start to ask ourselves what we can do to not be so divisive among each other and I’m not only talking about what takes place on this board.

I have always identified myself as a Baptist and I appreciate the rich history of Baptists and the commitment to scripture. Lately, however, I’ve been somewhat embarrassed to call myself a Baptist.

For a while I have been attending a mid-week Bible study at a local nondenominational church and have been seriously considering making it my permanent home church. Recently I walked out of my Baptist church for the last time. In fact I expect that it will be the very last time I step foot in a Baptist church until I start to see some positive changes in our denomination.

With that came a sense of freedom. No longer do I have to be concerned about what English translation someone is using. No longer do I have to be concerned about what type of worship music someone listens to. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone is wearing a suit and tie or a jeans and tee shirt. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone wants to have a beer every once in a while. No longer do I have to be concerned if someone holds to all 5 points of TULIP or perhaps none at all.

Let’s be better in 2025.

No disrespect but it sounds like you have bought the liberal agenda. You seem to forget that Jesus was/is divisive. He said;
Mat. 10:34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

I strongly suggest that you rethink your position. Not whether or not you attend a Baptist church, but rather or not you have come out from among them (the world) or not. Do you seek Truth no matter what it may cost you? No matter what personal belief or lifestyle you may have to surrender?
What we read, how we dress, talk, and live are all evidence if we have been born again or not. If seeking holiness and pointing others to it also is troubling to you then I would point you to 2Cor.13:5,8.
God bless.

 

[Nolan Stengel]

You are right that Baptists tend to be more picky about one thing or another. However, the list of things you mentioned aren’t exclusive to Baptists or any other denomination.

I’m sorry to put it this way brother, but you seem to come across as disgruntled more than anything else. All I can recommend you do is to pray about why you are so bothered by these things to the point that you’re going to abandon your Baptist heritage completely. Perhaps you should talk to those who you think have wronged you and maybe you’ll discover that it’s all a simple misunderstanding. I’ve certainly had my share of disagreements in the church but it’s best not to allow the little things to cause division.

That’s the best advice that I can offer and I will certainly be praying for you.

God Bless.