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Why are Baptists so divisive?
- Thread starter RCT
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David Lamb
Well-Known Member
But the post you were replying to said: "Yep, Go to a Church that does not hold to sound doctrine. Sounds fun." A community centre cannot hold doctrine, whether sound or unsound. A church can hold its services in a community centre, though. I used to be a member of a church that did so.
Why are Baptists so divisive?
immaturity
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Define sound doctrine
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you are asking me, because "sound doctrine" was a phrase used by Reynolds in his post which I quote. He wrote "Yep, Go to a Church that does not hold to sound doctrine."
Lol... zactly, lol...
[Tit 2:1-3 KJV] 1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
[1Ti 1:10 KJV] 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Sound doctrine consists of principles, teachings and values that are acceptable to God.
LOL…well I’d flunk this description then. I’m old, but there are times I’m not sober, NOT GRAVE, and not very patient, nor am I tolerant, which I consider a weakness. 
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
Based on Ephesians 5:11; "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather Reprove them",
a child of God does not have the 'freedom', as it says, to, "fellowship", or participate and intermingle with The Prince of Darkness
since Colossians 1:13 says; "He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and Brought us into the Kingdom of His Beloved Son".
How many Christians have so many friends prominent in the practice of the Occult?
Just like where you and I are are prohibited by God from fellowshipping and being allied with practitioners of the Occult in a secret society with non-Christian people who are "familiar" with spirits, or from visiting, or joining, a Synagogue of Satan, since Occultism commonly involves these esoteric and arcane secret societies, such as the Ghostly Guild, The Apostles, The Eranus Club, and other Occult organizations, like Socialism, Qabalah, Spiritualism, Theosophy, Anthroposophy, Wicca, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, New Age, and the left-hand path and right-hand path and Theosophy, etc. that are designed to investigate ghosts and supernatural appearances. Clubs like that are based upon the idea that such spirits actually exist and appear to men. According to The Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsvchologv, the members of the Ghostly Club would "relate personal experiences concerned with ghosts and its members were known to have meditations in the solitary darkness of the chapel at Auckland castle.
The secret society called, The Apostles was where they were secretly practicing the Occult with Leading Occult figures who had faith in spiritualism and communion with spirits, a belief that you can fellowship with the spirits of those who died recently and could meditate and pray in full sympathy with all that was good and great in the past.
Once formed, as a secret society, the Eranus Club held seances and the practice of spiritualism. The Eranus Club would eventually become known as an Occult secret society, involving Parapsychology, psychic phenomena, telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance, psychokinesis (also called telekinesis), and psychometry and the exploration of other paranormal claims, Alchemy, demonology, and for example, those related to near-death experiences, synchronicity, apparitional experiences, extrasensory perception (ESP), necromancy, and beliefs and practices that deal with hidden or supernatural forces, often involving mysticism, spirituality, including witchcraft, spells, and rituals, astrology, tarot card reading, palmistry, and New Age beliefs, like ghost hunting, and belief in supernatural beings like werewolves, vampires, ghosts, and faeries, Wizards and witches.
Then, in the context of religious practices, the Occult refers to the action or influence of supernatural powers, some secret knowledge of them, and included one person involved, who in 1875 introduced The Dark Occult Underground into the English language, the esotericist Helena Blavatsky.
So, we would never want to be associated with any of those "unfruitful works of darkness".
You get the idea, I hope.
Bible believers recognize these spirits as demons.
1 Peter 5:8; Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1 John 5:19; the whole world is under the power of the evil one,
Revelation 12:7-9; the dragon and his angels fought back. / ...that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world,
Daniel 10:12-13; the prince of the kingdom of Persia,
Matthew 4:1-11; to be tempted by the devil;
Luke 22:31; Satan has asked to sift all of you like wheat,
John 12:31; the prince of this world,
1 John 4:4; he who is in the world,
Revelation 20:2-3; the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan,
Isaiah 14:12-15; O Lucifer, son of the morning!,
Ezekiel 28:12-17; as a guardian cherub
Genesis 3:1-5; the serpent,
Job 1:6-12; Satan roaming through the earth and walking back and forth in it.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12.
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
Legalism is not a Scriptural Doctrine and is, therefore, not a position that Spiritual Baptists profess or (should) practice.
Jude 1:3
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,
it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you
that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."
1 Timothy 6:12
"Fight the good fight of the faith.
Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made the good confession before many witnesses."
2 Timothy 4:7
"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."
Philippians 1:27
"Nevertheless, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.
Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence,
I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending together as one for the faith of the gospel,"
1 Corinthians 16:13
"Be on the alert. Stand firm in the faith. Be men of courage. Be strong."
2 Peter 1:1
"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:"
Ephesians 6:12
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
1 Peter 5:9
"Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world
are undergoing the same kinds of suffering."
2 Peter 3:1-2
"Beloved, this is now my second letter to you.
Both of them are reminders to stir you to wholesome thinking /
by recalling what was foretold by the holy prophets and commanded by our Lord and Savior through your apostles."
Hebrews 10:23
"Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful."
1 Thessalonians 2:2
"As you are aware, we had already endured suffering and shameful treatment in Philippi.
But in the face of strong opposition, we were bold in our God to speak to you the gospel of God."
Romans 15:30
"Now I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit,
to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me."
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
"For though we live in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh. /
The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the flesh. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. /
We demolish arguments and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God;
and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
Galatians 1:23
"They only heard the account: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.”
Acts 6:7
"So the word of God continued to spread.
The number of disciples in Jerusalem grew rapidly, and a great number of priests became obedient to the faith."
1 John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.
For many false prophets have gone out into the world."
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
STICK WITH THE STUFF! WHAT DO THE BAPTISTS BELIEVE?
things that most Baptists believe Our Baptist views Not trying to even say that these are you all's views. Just thought these brothers did a great job on this 'stuff'. STICK WITH THE STUFF! II. WHAT DO THE BAPTISTS BELIEVE? When questioned as to his belief, Charles H. Spurgeon used to...
www.baptistboard.com
Tenchi
Active Member
I used to train in the martial arts. In fact, I was a chief instructor for a little over twenty years (I trained for thirty years). As I trained and developed in my skills in the martial art, it became evident that there were a great many who were "polishing the exterior" of the various martial techniques that constituted the art. They would fuss over the position of elbows and wrists, knees and feet; they would assert that one's shoulders should never rise and that every movement be performed with a "heavy relaxation" of the body; they would focus on the timing of one's breath and the extension of one's arms and focus; grip like this, twist like that, back straight, head up, and so on.
Not being identical in physical form, or personality, or experience, no two instructors had the exact same way of doing a technique and so there was endless "discussion" about the "best" way to perform various techniques, each arguing for their version and often very dismissive of other versions, saying things like, "That's not true (insert martial here)!" "That way would never work if I did x, y, or z." "My teacher did it this way and said that your way was totally wrong." All of this contention existed primarily because none of these technical fuss-pots had the "real goods" within, the internal skills that actually made the techniques powerful and effective. Their wrangling over outer, technical issues helped to obscure this fact.
The founder of the art, however, famously declared that every movement he made could become a martial technique. He often proclaimed that what made techniques really "work" was what happened inside a person's body where no one could see. He would talk of learning technique in order to forget technique, the essential body principles within martial maneuvers so internalized that the outward form of the moves became largely unimportant. In the view of the founder of the martial art, the interior condition of the trainee, their internal power, was much more important than the precision of exterior motions.
Why am I talking about this? Well, in the same way that weak martial artists polish technigue form because the vital internal skills that make them work are absent or undeveloped, some Christians "polish" the exterior of the faith, fussing inordinately about eschatology, or manner of dress, or style of music, Dispensationalism vs. Covenantalism, Arminianism vs. Calvinism, Christus Victor vs. Penal Substitutionary Atonement vs. Ransom Theory, etc., and so on because the "internal skills" of the faith are absent or underdeveloped in them. When there is little or nothing inside, all that is left is the outward form. And so, that external form becomes the preoccupation of the "empty" Christian, who "polishes" it endlessly, growing more and more obsessed with the minutiae of their various pet (but tertiary) doctrines of the faith,
What are the "internal skills" of the faith? Well, they are the non-negotiables of Christian living:
- knowledge (Jn. 8:32; Ro. 10: 1-3; 13-14; 2 Ti. 1:12b)
- faith (He. 11:6; 2 Cor. 5:7; Jn. 3:16-18)
- spiritual regeneration (1 Jn. 5:11-13; Tit. 3:5; 1 Jn. 4:13; Ro. 8:9-14)
- love (Matt. 22:36-39; 1 Cor. 13:1-8; 1 Jn. 3:14; 4:7-11)
- submission (Ja. 4:7; Ro. 6:13-22; 8:14; 12:1; 1 Pe. 5:6)
- holiness (He. 12:14b; 1 Pe. 1:15-16; 3:12; Ps. 66:18)
- fellowship (2 Cor. 13:14; 1 Jn. 1:3; Rev. 3:20; Ps. 36:7-9)
- glorification of God (1 Cor. 10:31; Matt. 5:16; Ga. 6:14)
When a child of God is walking in/by the Spirit all the time (Ga. 5:16, 25) praying with out ceasing (1 Thess. 5:17), meditating throughout the day upon God's Truth (Ps. 1; 119; 2 Ti. 3:16-17; 1 Pe. 2:2), desiring God above all else and wanting His best for others, and is daily being transformed into the "image of Christ" (Ro. 8:29), their eagerness to "major in the minors," splitting churches as they split doctrinal hairs, evaporates.
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
I was blessed and interested to see a chart of Practical Divinity, which alerted me to something we can all appreciate real quick, I believe, and that is the starting point for the child of God on which we may then begin to enter into the additional blessings you mention. Thank you for them, BTW.
In Jesus` Sermon on The Mount, He begins by saying what? "Blessed are the poor in spirit...",
so right off jump street, Jesus lays the key to our foundation on which we may then build practical experiences.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit...", WHO HAVE SUBMITTED THEIR HEART AND NATURAL AFFECTIONS TO GOD,
IN HUMILITY AND ARE DOING WHAT? = DYING TO THEMSELVES!!! THEN!!! IT'S LIVING IN THE SPIRIT TIME!!!
With dying to our own heart influences of the flesh and quieting our own carnal rationalizing, the Spirit is Freed
To Take Us on OVER enabling us to experience the things you've listed for us.
...
There is a THOROUGH TREATMENT of 18 Practical Doctrines of Divinity you may be familiar with
at: https://ccel.org/ccel/g/gill/practical/cache/practical.pdf
The kind of teachings like those as being what you brought up, are WAY, WAY, WAY, TOO UNDERUTILIZED!
Praise the Lord. Thanks again.
Why are Baptists so divisive?
Scripture tells us our local churches are populated with both "wheat" and "tares," those who have been born anew, and those who believe they have been born anew, or simply make that claim. Some of these secretly introduce (or advocate what has been secretly introduced before) destructive heresies. The solution is not acceptance of false doctrine, but a willingness to cling to the truth.
The OP addressed division over seemingly superficial matters, appropriate dress, worship service music, or abstaining from mind altering substances.
Our divisions are far deeper than that.
1) Does God know everything imaginable, or only what He has chosen to know?
2) Are the lost innately able to understand spiritual milk, or must they be enabled by irresistible or prevenient grace?
3) Can our choices alter the outcome of our lives, or were we damned or saved from all eternity for all eternity?
4) Did Christ die as a ransom for all humanity, or only for individuals chosen before creation?
I could go on but you get the idea.
Scripture says we are to teach disciples all that Christ commanded. But if I asked for a list, most posters could not list more than a dozen.
We quibble because we are unwilling to engage in study, but instead proudly proclaim, "My way or the highway!"
Scripture tells us our local churches are populated with both "wheat" and "tares," those who have been born anew, and those who believe they have been born anew, or simply make that claim. Some of these secretly introduce (or advocate what has been secretly introduced before) destructive heresies. The solution is not acceptance of false doctrine, but a willingness to cling to the truth.
The OP addressed division over seemingly superficial matters, appropriate dress, worship service music, or abstaining from mind altering substances.
Our divisions are far deeper than that.
1) Does God know everything imaginable, or only what He has chosen to know?
2) Are the lost innately able to understand spiritual milk, or must they be enabled by irresistible or prevenient grace?
3) Can our choices alter the outcome of our lives, or were we damned or saved from all eternity for all eternity?
4) Did Christ die as a ransom for all humanity, or only for individuals chosen before creation?
I could go on but you get the idea.
Scripture says we are to teach disciples all that Christ commanded. But if I asked for a list, most posters could not list more than a dozen.
We quibble because we are unwilling to engage in study, but instead proudly proclaim, "My way or the highway!"
Tenchi
Active Member
Thanks for the appreciative reply to my post. I'm glad to know that you're not a "technique polisher," but want the "internal (spiritual) skills" of fellowship with God.
When I read the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7, I see a description of godly living but a I don't see in the sermon any explanation of how to achieve it. In other words, in his sermon, Jesus tells me what "kingdom living" should be like, describing supernatural living to which I cannot, on my own, ever attain (Matt. 5:48). Certainly, Jesus' Jewish audience would have thought the standard of behaviour Jesus described was impossible. Their own history recounted in the OT makes this very plain (e.g. Ju. 2:11-23).
And as I said, Jesus never offered any "how" in his sermon. He didn't speak of the empowering Holy Spirit indwelling people (Tit. 3:5; Ro. 8:9-14; 1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19-20); he said nothing of being born-again through faith in himself as Savior and Lord (Ro. 10:9-10; John 3:16-19); he didn't mention coming "boldly unto the throne of grace" of God as a "joint-heir" with himself (He. 4:16; Ro. 8:16). So, then, there is no help for the believer in the Sermon on the Mount, no practical description of how to be the person described in the Sermon.
Such a description would have to wait 'til the saving work of Christ on the cross was accomplished, right? It's only through what he did on the cross that the "new and living way" (He. 10:19-22) by which we are reconciled to God and made fully justified and sanctified, positionally, in Jesus (1 Cor. 1:30), became available to all. And it's only by being "in Christ" that one obtains the wherewithal to live in the way the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7 describes.
In his Sermon on the Mount, I think Jesus is describing the effects of being a "new creature in Christ" and "walking in the Spirit" (2 Cor. 5:17; Ga. 5:16, 25). A person can only be properly "poor in spirit," they can only be "meek," "pure in heart," and a "peacemaker," they can only be a person who desires righteousness and is merciful, because the Spirit of Christ dwells within them. I wouldn't, therefore, say that being "poor in spirit" was a "foundational key" to Christian living, or the means to Spirit-filled living, but, rather, the effect of such living.
Only the Spirit can make me properly meek; only he can make me truly "pure in heart"; only he can form in me Christ-like humility and righteousness (Phil. 2:12-13; Eph. 3:16; 2 Cor. 3:18, Ro. 8:13). These characteristics of Christian living are the products of the Spirit's life and work in me (Ga. 5:22-23). This is true also of living in the truth of my co-crucifixion with Christ, about which Paul so often wrote. Scripture doesn't say that I crucify myself, which is impossible both physically and spiritually, but that I live by faith in the truth that I have been crucified with Christ. I "take up my cross daily" by "reckoning it so" that, through the work of Christ at Calvary, I was, at the moment of my conversion, made "dead to sin and alive unto God through Jesus." Just read Romans 6:1-11, or Galatians 2:20, 5:24, 6:14 or Colossians 2:9-13, 3:1-3.
As we live by faith in the truth of our co-crucifixion with Christ, the Spirit brings us ever more fully into what it is to "walk in/by the Spirit" rather than merely to live in/by him, and into the practical reality of being "dead to sin and alive unto God through Jesus Christ." (Ro. 6:11)
Romans 6:1-7
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Galatians 5:16
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Your illustration here reminded me of how many times in martial arts tv shows or movie is there the scene where someone is bragging, doing multiply spin kicks, jumps, doing movements, but then the hero just does a stright jab or kick to KO mr big talker fancy panst artist
Tenchi
Active Member
We used to say in training: "The empty barrel makes the most noise."
