Why Are You Catholic?

[JeffreyLloyd]

I am Catholic beacuse I believe it is Christ's Church. I believe Him when he said the gates of hell would never destory His Church, and I don't believe they ever have been.

I look at the Reformation, and don't see Luther was right.

It is this and many more reasons why I left the SBC Church for the Catholic one.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Living4Him:
Peace of Christ be with you BobRyan!

I'm not speaking for all IFB churches but I do know that we were taught only Catholics practiced infant baptism.

Well -- I can not speak for IFB churches either - but I would think that someone in the IFB church would have to meet a Presbyterian some day.

I feel that I was only given History that protrayed that the early Americans held to the same beliefs that we do.

Are you familiar with Rhode Island and it's history? As it turns out there was a great deal of religious intolerance in early America - very similar to the way the RCC practiced it during the dark ages (in some ways).

The people that left the RCC in Europe had a hard time shaking off all the chains of error in a single move. It took time.

I searched historical accounts from all sides Baptist, Catholic, and nonreligious. As far as the Nazi's, I have found that the only ones who try to "paint a different picture" are the "bandwagon" Nazi's.

The point is that - going to modern pro-Nazi groups for a "true picture of German Jews in WWII) is not "wise". You don't go to the perp to get an accurate view of his victim.

My husband grew up in Germany and his sister married a German Catholic man. In their History they do not deny the awful things that Hitler and the Nazi party did to the Jews.

That is not a case of a Nazi coming clean on Nazi history. It is a case of a German doing it - one who is NOT a Nazi.

I am not saying that you can not go to a European historian and get a objective view of RC history in Europe. Rather I am saying that if you go to an RC historian THEN you have to expect an RC bias given the level of atrocities committed in the dark ages.

What constitues a Christian religion no matter what demonination? Those that believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth of Jesus, his death, burial, resurrection, his ascension and that he will come again to judge the living and the dead. I was given the impression that Catholics weren't Christian because they didn't really believe this.

Again - I would say that this was bad information - however most non-RC Christians even on this board should know better than that.

I had even heard the far fetched statement that the Catholics are the ones who crucified Jesus.

Again - not something you would find here or in most non-RC groups. I doubt that even an IFB on this board would buy that. I am not doubting that you heard that in your local church - I just don't think it is very common.

I had often read my KJV Bible and thought that many scriptures seem to contradict themselves. It was if salvation was presented only by faith alone and the rest of the scriptures seemed to be either discarded or overlooked. For example Christ himself teaches the Corporate Works of Mercy - Feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, shelter the homeless, visit the sick, and bury the dead. Never really heard how important it is as Christians that we do these things.

In Matt 7 Christ makes it very clear that the born-again experience is needed to produce good works. The tree itself must be changed to produce good fruit.

And then the test is given "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven -- but he who DOES the will of My Father"

This is a truth that a great many non-RC's hold to -- even on this board.

The Catholic Church teaches that all the scriptures are woven together and you receive the complete picture. It begins with the Grace of God, which is a free gift. It continues through faith and is evident by our fruit or works. Catholics do not believe that good works are what save them. This is contrary to what I had been taught.

This is also a point of agreement with non-Catholics.

But your statement above does not really reflect all that the RCC teaches on this subject as the RC historian Thomas Bokenkotter reveals in his history of the RCC.

Bokenkotter tells us that the magic sacraments are indeed works-based religion and not faith-based. Infants are thereby saved NOT by their faith - but by the magic powers of the priest in the work of the sacrament.

This also goes back to the doctrine "it is what you eat that saves you"

The Inquisition is a fact of history as unpleasant as it is. However, apologetics have been offered by the Pope for these regretable actions.

Not according to current RC historians. They claim that the Pope has not identified anything that the RC church actually did as being wrong much less apologized for it. His apology was carefully worded so as NOT to identify the inquisition itself as being an error.

Have other Christian denominations offered apologetics for their wrong doings to those who held to beliefs different than theirs?

This is a good question. Have other Christian groups offerred non-specific apologies that their own scholars then "defend" as "Not apologizing for any specific act done by their church in history".

I will have to think about that one.

I have a renewed zeal for serving my risen Savior. I now live a Christian life rather than being a mere Sunday Christian.

Well there is nothing bad in that - faith is always to be affirmed and encouraged.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ray Berrian]

Someone said, 'At risk of being banned, I truly believe that Christ is fully physically present in the Eucharist and it is found no where else other than the Catholic Church.'

God cannot be 'fully, physically present' in the service of Holy Communion, because when Jesus arose from the dead He was a totally spiritual Being. On this very night Jesus did not physically knock at the door, but passed through the walls and appeared to the suprise of the Apostles. And to Mary He said do not touch me because I have not ascended yet to My Father.

The Westminister Confession of Faith says that He ' . . . is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body parts, or passions, immutable, immense, eternal . . . '
Again, God Who is a spiritual being cannot 'physically become present in the bread and wine.' And yet, the most wonderful thing is that when we go to be with the Lord, we will be able to see Him and will enjoy a spiritual body like His that our loved ones will also recognize us.

 

[BobRyan]

In Colossians one we find that this great hope is "Christ IN you the Hope of Glory".

In the Gospels Christ promises "Where two or three are gathered in My name there I AM in their midst".

The REAL presence -- is believed and accepted by most Christians today.

We just don't believe that "it is what you eat that saves you".

We don't believe "the RC priests have the magic power to turn bread into God"

And we for SURE dont belive the Catholic doctrine that a Catholic Priest that is excommunicated and condemned for error - RETAINS the POWER to turn bread into God.

But then - we are not Catholic so "there you go" - eh?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[neal4christ]

when Jesus arose from the dead He was a totally spiritual Being.

Really? I always thought he has a glorified body now.

Ray, I don't think I will feel comfortable saying that God can't do something as you have said. Do you really believe God can't?

In Christ,
Neal

 

[neal4christ]

Bob,

What is the deal with you and all these quotes? Are you really quoting some sort of source? If it is emphasis you want, why not use italics or bold type? This would cut down on some of the ambiguity.

In Christ,
Neal

 

[Gina B]

T2u, no you will not be banned for saying you believe in the Eucharist, although I'm sure you realize that as whole threads have been dedicated to the subject.

About purgatory. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". This was addressed to Christians by Paul. It doesn't seem to leave room for purgatory, does it?
Christ's blood washes away sin, past present and future. Partial atonement is not a biblical concept.
Gina

 

[Living4Him]

Bob,

I apologize, but I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I have listed the reasons why I am a Catholic Christian. However, for some reason that is not readily known to me I get the feeling that you don't believe my thoughts to be valid.

I have shared my personal thoughts. You, my brother in Christ, are entitled to your own religious opinons as well.

I do not cast judgement as to your Christian beliefs. I have prayed (to God) and I know that my Christian life is heading in the direction that the Holy Spirit is leading me.

Peace of Christ,
Lucinda

 

[Ray Berrian]

Bob Ryan,

Your quote from the Bible is true. 'Christ in you the hope of glory.' How do we acquire or get Christ into our lives? The Eucharist or by receiving Christ? The Apostle John says, 'And to as many as receive Christ to those He gives the power/authority to become the children of God.' [John 1:12] As you well know, 'He gives the power' through the Holy Spirit. [John 14:16 & I John 3:9] The 'incorruptible seed' recorded in I Peter 1:23 is the holy Spirit of God. He abides in our hearts forever. Praise be to the Lord! Sinners can only ask for a change in their lives; Jesus will never disappoint them.

 

[neal4christ]

Repost addressed to Ray:

when Jesus arose from the dead He was a totally spiritual Being.

Really? I always thought he has a glorified body now.

Ray, I don't think I will feel comfortable saying that God can't do something as you have said. Do you really believe God can't?

In Christ,
Neal

 

[Ray Berrian]

Neal,

When Jesus was on earth He was the Son of God and the Son of man. On the Cross His physical body died, but His spirituality was and is eternal. That part of Him never died or ever will die.

It seems to me that after His resurrection He was clothed with a heavenly body so that the disciples could recognize Him but He also could pass through the wall and enter the room on the evening of the day of resurrection.

Jesus is presently in Heaven with an eternal spiritual body. How then can He now be physically present in the wafer and wine in a Roman Catholic Church? There may be a case made that He is spiritually present in the bread and wine, but He is not physically present there, when the priest offers the wafer to the communicant.

I don't know if this makes it clear to you or not. I hope so . . .

 

[neal4christ]

So a glorified body is not physical? Was it not Jesus' earthly body that was resurrected from the tomb (thus it was empty)? You seem to have an oxymoron going on here, spiritual body. Spirit and body are two separate things.

In Christ,
Neal

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
Bob,

What is the deal with you and all these quotes? Are you really quoting some sort of source? If it is emphasis you want, why not use italics or bold type? This would cut down on some of the ambiguity.

In Christ,
Neal

I am fairly consisten on using the "[ quote ]" html tag to place quotes in clearly identifiable form.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
So a glorified body is not physical? Was it not Jesus' earthly body that was resurrected from the tomb (thus it was empty)? You seem to have an oxymoron going on here, spiritual body. Spirit and body are two separate things.

In Christ,
Neal

Ray did not make the argument that the spiritual body is not physical. In fact he stated "so that the disciples could see Him" showing that physical properties are associated with Him.

Of course God was also seen in the OT on numerous occassions - but not God the Father according to John 1.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[neal4christ]

Bob,

This is what I take issue with concerning what Ray has said:

because when Jesus arose from the dead He was a totally spiritual Being.

Besides, even if you say a spiritual body, that is an oxymoron.

In Christ,
Neal

 

[BobRyan]

hmmm oxymoron you say?

1Cor 15
35 But someone will say, ""How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?''
36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The spiritual body has physical properties but is not limited to the same constraints that we have.

The fact that Christ and the angels can "choose to be seen" does not mean that there is in fact "nothing to see" as some have supposed.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ray Berrian]

If Jesus had a fleshly, body after His resurrection, He then would be subject to dead and decay. After the resurrection and when He went back to Heaven for His glorification, no flesh and blood when to this eternal kingdom above. Acts 2:31 indicates that Jesus physical, human body never experienced corruption. Check it out.

How do we know that Jesus physical, human body did not go back to Heaven. The answer is found in I Corinthians 15:50 says, 'Now this I sy, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.'

My point is that before the resurrection and perhaps while in the tomb Jesus body took on a special spirituality before His grand appearance among His disciples. This kind of puts the last nail in the casket of those who believe that at each Mass the wafer becomes His body once again, and that the wine is magically and mysterously, transformed into His most sacred blood.

God's true spirituality is in Heaven as He is seated on the throne of God [Hebrews 1:3] no skeleton, no flesh and no blood is now flowing through His sacred body. [I Cor. 15:50]

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
If Jesus had a fleshly, body after His resurrection, He then would be subject to dead and decay. After the resurrection and when He went back to Heaven for His glorification, no flesh and blood when to this eternal kingdom above. Acts 2:31 indicates that Jesus physical, human body never experienced corruption. Check it out.

A corruptible, sinful body is subject to death and decay. A glorified body is not. Christ arose from the dead. There is no such thing as a spirit-resurrection such as the Jehovah Witnesses believe. It is a contradiction in fact. A resurrection always refers to the body, else a resurrection would not make any sense at all. It is the body that rises from the dead. Christ arose from the dead. What did He say to Mary? "Touch me not for I am not yet ascennded to my Father." Where did He go in His resurrected body? To the Father in Heaven. What did Steven see when he was martyred. Did he see a ghost? (Ghosts don't exist). Did he see a spirit? It is impossible for the human eye to see a spirit. He saw Jesus standing on the right hand of the throne of God. He SAW Jesus, in His glorified body. And when the resurrection takes place we all who believe on Him will be with Jesus, each one in our own fleshly glorified bodies.

How do we know that Jesus physical, human body did not go back to Heaven. The answer is found in I Corinthians 15:50 says, 'Now this I sy, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.'

1Cor.15:50 says that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, NOT enter the kingdom of God. There is a big difference. John 1:12,13 explains that concept fairly well. We are born of God, not of the flesh.
Corruption does not inherit incorruption, BUT

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

My point is that before the resurrection and perhaps while in the tomb Jesus body took on a special spirituality before His grand appearance among His disciples. This kind of puts the last nail in the casket of those who believe that at each Mass the wafer becomes His body once again, and that the wine is magically and mysterously, transformed into His most sacred blood.

Jesus body was changed as it says in 1Cor.15:52; and so shall we all be changed. He appeared in his glorified body. The best way that we can describe it is that it was a body very much like our own: Thomas was able to see the nail prints in his hands. He was able to eat and dine with his disciples. He walked with them, and yet at the same time his body was atomically arranged so that he could pass through doors. He had the ability to move from one place to another in a moment's time. But when the disciples saw him at his ascension they saw him slowly ascend into heaven, in his body. He shall so come again in his body, which he still has in Heaven.

1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

God's true spirituality is in Heaven as He is seated on the throne of God [Hebrews 1:3] no skeleton, no flesh and no blood is now flowing through His sacred body. [I Cor. 15:50]

Then what did Stephen see?
What did the angel mean:

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
DHK

 

[Meercat]

BobRyan, Ray Berrian-

LOL!!! Yeah! That's "exactly" why I became a Catholic! I "wanna 'sperience purga-tory"!!"

Ok, now that the sarcasm is out of my system, God love you both!!! Neither of you apparently understand the Catholic teaching of Purgatory or any other teaching of the Catholic Church's teachings for that matter. But that's ironically quite understandable!!! Five years ago, I would have been in your camp(s). But when I got tired of the differing interpretations of Scriptures each "pastor" gave out depending on which church I attended...(ranging from Baptist to Pentecostal to "non"-denominational to almost "non-christianity" altogether, I had to ask, "Didn't Jesus leave SOME form of authoritive teaching here for Christians to follow in his wake? If not, what was the point? This only scrapes the surface of my converstion to Catholicism, and to whomever made the comment that people aren't being converted in "droves" to the Catholic Church, I'd like to shake you up a little and let you know that in spite of the Catholic Church's "Judases, a.k.a. bad priests, bad lay-persons, religious, etc,), new and fervent Christians who want to dedicate their lives totally for the sake of Christ ARE indeed being drawn to the Catholic Church! -Praise God!

But I don't mean to undermine anyone who doesn't feel this way in their heart. One of the things I appreciate most about Baptists, is that they are usually "on fire" for God and truly DO have a deep desire to know God as much as possible this side of life. This is why I came to this forum. I want to share and enjoy the enthusiasm for Christ in these especially troubling and turbulent times when we actually have more in common than not. - Meercat