Why Calvinism preaches a fraudulent gospel to some of the lost.

[37818]

. . . .that the sinner is reconciled with the Lord, but this cannot take place until the sinner first repents of their sins, . . .

Where is that taught to be part of the gospel? John? Romans? 1 Corinthians? Where? Please quote where the word of God teaches this in the gospel.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes I have.
Let's look at how you fail to understand.
Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Jesus comes to Covenant Israel, the people He chose out from all other peoples, and he tells his chosen to repent and believe in the good news that the prophets gave and Jesus came to fulfill. Context, context, context.
Acts 2:33-39 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Read this, over and over until it sinks in. Peter is talking to the Covenant people and telling them to repent. Moreso, he tells them (and us) that this promise of the Holy Spirit is for the children of the promise, everyone whom Jesus calls to himself. (See John 10 to know what Peter is referencing)

Now, may I ask you if you have ever read the entire Bible and understood the whole narrative of covenant redemption?

maybe Mark was still in OT times, but Acts in the Church Age. Try again

 

[SavedByGrace]

Where is that taught to be part of the gospel? John? Romans? 1 Corinthians? Where? Please quote where the word of God says this.

what does term Atonement mean to you?

 

[37818]

what does term Atonement mean to you?

1 Corinthians 15:3, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ."

 

[Silverhair]

I am not a Hyper calvinist, as God does not directly determine all things as you seem to assume we hold to!

So you hold to soft determinism / compatibilism but that still does not help you as you still have God being the one that determines all things. So you see God as indirectly determining all things, OK then how does that work? Does that mean that man has the ability to make a free will choice? Does that allow man to chose to follow Christ Jesus?
But you will argue that God does not directly determine what man does so that lets Him of the hook. Not so fast there. Are you saying that the decrees of God are really just suggestions?

What is compatibilism? The theory of compatibilism is that God’s predetermination of all events that happen in history is compatible — consistent, suitable, appropriate, adaptable, cooperative — with so-called “voluntary” choice. In other words, our choices are not coerced, that is, we do not choose against our desires, and yet we never make choices or decisions contrary to “what God determines will always come to pass (Eph_1:11).” So, God decrees what we will choose, and we will desire the object of our so-called choice. {John Hendryx Search | Monergism}

John Hendryx makes the case, the Calvinist God is the actual problem, though He is presented as the solution to the problems that He Himself decreed from eternity past, and brings into reality.
Your Calvinist compatibilism renders God, then, culpable for decreeing all the sin, wickedness, and evil performed among mortals. Compatibilistic Calvinism is determinism, and the theory is a deceptively, deterministic farce: compatibilism is determinism. In a compatibilistic context, God has still decreed whatever occurs in reality; the notion that a person desires to do what he or she does is irrelevant to the fact that, again, in a compatibilistic system, what the person accomplishes (namely, evil) was decreed by God and brought to pass by His irresistible will. Moreover, even the desire of the individual to the enactment of the evil was decreed by God and brought to pass by His irresistible will. In Calvinism, whether compatibilism or hard determinism, God is the problem of evil.

 

[SavedByGrace]

1 Corinthians 15:3, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ."

I asked you to define the term Atonement, here it is:

"The reconciliation of God and mankind through Jesus Christ." (Oxford English Dictionary)

If the entire human race has been Atoned for, and they are Reconciled with God, then they are all saved, and this is Universal Salvation, which is heresy!

 

[Silverhair]

Salvation by works apart from grace.
Why is it that you place the cause of salvation with men and relegate God to the effect of man's choice?
The cause of salvation is God's choice to be both gracious and merciful. The effect is our repentance and belief.

Give God the glory due his name, sbg.

Perhaps he does that because that is the way we find it in the bible

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

How is it that the bible tells us we have to hear the gospel message and believe before we are sealed/saved. Your Calvinism does not fit with scripture.

 

[37818]

I asked you to define the term Atonement,

No.
You had asked,

what does term Atonement mean to you?

 

[AustinC]

maybe Mark was still in OT times, but Acts in the Church Age. Try again

There is no need for me to try again. You need to show me how I am wrong in understanding Acts 2.
You should note that Peter clearly references the covenant and promise in Acts 2 so I suggest you figure out what covenant is all about. You can start with the old testament and then read what Paul shares.

 

[37818]

Romans 8;34, ". . . Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. . . ."

 

[SavedByGrace]

There is no need for me to try again. You need to show me how I am wrong in understanding Acts 2.
You should note that Peter clearly references the covenant and promise in Acts 2 so I suggest you figure out what covenant is all about. You can start with the old testament and then read what Paul shares.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No.
You had asked,

and what you quoted does not define this!

 

[canadyjd]

So if your view of Gods' sovereignty is correct then the only reason that man has a sin nature is because God gave it to them. And the only reason some reject God is because He does not allow them the ability to come to Him and thus be saved.
You do realize that you are destroying the character of God by your theology.

I corrected your false statement that Calvinists believe man has no freewill because God is sovereign. Man has no freewill because of their sin nature.

Your interpretation of my view of God’s sovereignty is that the “only reason” man has a sin nature is not because they rebelled against God but because God just gave it to to them. Additionally, I’m destroying God’s character.

I don’t think you understand what reformed believers actually believe, so you can only make non-sensical accusations.

Quite frankly, I have no desire to debate nonsense.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Biblically the latter, theologically according to some, the former

What do you say?

 

[Yeshua1]

So you hold to soft determinism / compatibilism but that still does not help you as you still have God being the one that determines all things. So you see God as indirectly determining all things, OK then how does that work? Does that mean that man has the ability to make a free will choice? Does that allow man to chose to follow Christ Jesus?
But you will argue that God does not directly determine what man does so that lets Him of the hook. Not so fast there. Are you saying that the decrees of God are really just suggestions?

What is compatibilism? The theory of compatibilism is that God’s predetermination of all events that happen in history is compatible — consistent, suitable, appropriate, adaptable, cooperative — with so-called “voluntary” choice. In other words, our choices are not coerced, that is, we do not choose against our desires, and yet we never make choices or decisions contrary to “what God determines will always come to pass (Eph_1:11).” So, God decrees what we will choose, and we will desire the object of our so-called choice. {John Hendryx Search | Monergism}

John Hendryx makes the case, the Calvinist God is the actual problem, though He is presented as the solution to the problems that He Himself decreed from eternity past, and brings into reality.
Your Calvinist compatibilism renders God, then, culpable for decreeing all the sin, wickedness, and evil performed among mortals. Compatibilistic Calvinism is determinism, and the theory is a deceptively, deterministic farce: compatibilism is determinism. In a compatibilistic context, God has still decreed whatever occurs in reality; the notion that a person desires to do what he or she does is irrelevant to the fact that, again, in a compatibilistic system, what the person accomplishes (namely, evil) was decreed by God and brought to pass by His irresistible will. Moreover, even the desire of the individual to the enactment of the evil was decreed by God and brought to pass by His irresistible will. In Calvinism, whether compatibilism or hard determinism, God is the problem of evil.

God is sovereign, he orders all things after His own will and pleasure, and yet we are still personally accountable for our decisions and choices, and God in not author of evil or sin!

 

[canadyjd]

The Bible teaches that God is sovereign and in His sovereignty He decided that man will choose to either respond to the gospel and receive it or reject it.?

All mankind has chosen to reject God and His Christ.

I thank God that in His great mercy, He took it upon Himself not to leave us helpless and enslaved to our sin nature, and is bringing His chosen to salvation.

All glory to God.

peace to you

 

[37818]

and what you quoted does not define this!

Define what? Again I had answered what you originally asked me. You changed the question.

what does term Atonement mean to you?

And you never answered what I had asked.

. . . that the sinner is reconciled with the Lord, but this cannot take place until the sinner first repents of their sins, . . .

Where is that taught to be part of the gospel? John? Romans? 1 Corinthians? Where? Please quote where the word of God teaches this in the gospel.

 

[SavedByGrace]

What do you say?

Potential

 

[Reformed1689]

Ad Hominem arguments are not helpful. Either one holds to a belief or one does not. Either a said belief is true or it is not.
Either Christ died for all (1 Timothy 2:6) or He did not. Either Calvinists teach Christ died only for His elect/chosen or they do not. Either more are offered salvation than Christ died for or Christ did die for them.

Out of context verses do not help either....

 

[37818]

Out of context verses do not help either....

There is a difference between out of context and from a context like Matthew 4:4 from Deuteronomy 8:3 and many more examples.

1 Timothy 2:6 in ". . . For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. . . ."