Why Calvinism preaches a fraudulent gospel to some of the lost.

[37818]

I am still waiting for a Calvinist to explain the Limited Atonement view in light of the non-elect hearing the message Christ died for them when He would not have.

 

[1689Dave]

I am still waiting for a Calvinist to explain the Limited Atonement view in light of the non-elect hearing the message Christ died for them when He would not have.

It doesn't say Christ died for them. This is why your gospel doesn't work in this situation. The gospel is an ANNOUNCEMENT (= Preaching) that whoever believes has eternal life. Most do not believe. It never says Christ died for unbelievers.

 

[canadyjd]

It doesn't say Christ died for them…. It never says Christ died for unbelievers.

So, the elect were “believers” before they heard the gospel and believed?

Do you believe the gospel is necessary for salvation?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

If the Spirit bears witness with your spirit you will know it. It causes you to believe in the true Christ.

There is no “if”. God Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. God Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I have believed in the “True Christ”.

If you doubt it, say so plainly, if you are able. You continue to violate the command of my Lord Jesus to let your Yes be Yes and let your No be No.

If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling He would be grieved that you continue to violate the command of my Lord Jesus. Just ask yourself if God Holy Spirit is grieved by your disobedience to a very plain command of Jesus. You will certainly know it, if God Holy Spirit truly indwells you.

peace to you

 

[1689Dave]

So, the elect were “believers” before they heard the gospel and believed?

Do you believe the gospel is necessary for salvation?

peace to you

They were born again, which creates faith when the word is preached, a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You think works save people but God must save them before they can believe.

 

[canadyjd]

They were born again, which creates faith when the word is preached, a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You think works save people but God must save them before they can believe.

I will speak plainly to you. I do not believe works save people. There is no way for you came to that conclusion from anything I wrote.

Now, let’s see if you can speak plainly.

You stated Jesus did not die for unbelievers. I’m trying to understand how that is possible.

The only way that could be possible is if the elect were already saved when Jesus died.

So, again, do you believe the elect were already saved when Jesus died? Was there ever a time when the elect were unsaved, non-believers?

Come on, just try to obey Jesus by letting your Yes be Yes and your No be No.

peace to you

 

[1689Dave]

I will speak plainly to you. I do not believe works save people. There is no way for you came to that conclusion from anything I wrote.

Now, let’s see if you can speak plainly.

You stated Jesus did not die for unbelievers. I’m trying to understand how that is possible.

The only way that could be possible is if the elect were already saved when Jesus died.

So, again, do you believe the elect were already saved when Jesus died? Was there ever a time when the elect were unsaved, non-believers?

Come on, just try to obey Jesus by letting your Yes be Yes and your No be No.

peace to you

"Accepting Jesus" as a condition for salvation is a failed attempt to keep the first commandment. = Works. People believe in Jesus because God saves them. Any choice of the will results in salvation by works.

 

[1689Dave]

There is no “if”. God Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. God Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I have believed in the “True Christ”.

If you doubt it, say so plainly, if you are able. You continue to violate the command of my Lord Jesus to let your Yes be Yes and let your No be No.

If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling He would be grieved that you continue to violate the command of my Lord Jesus. Just ask yourself if God Holy Spirit is grieved by your disobedience to a very plain command of Jesus. You will certainly know it, if God Holy Spirit truly indwells you.

peace to you

But you have an atonement based on salvation by works.

 

[1689Dave]

So, the elect were “believers” before they heard the gospel and believed?

Do you believe the gospel is necessary for salvation?

peace to you

Cornelius was obviously born again long before he heard Peter preach. The gospel saves us from the pitfalls of life. But you must already be saved in order to hear it in truth.

 

[Yeshua1]

Potential

So does the Lord not know yet if and who will be saved then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Cornelius was obviously born again long before he heard Peter preach. The gospel saves us from the pitfalls of life. But you must already be saved in order to hear it in truth.

regenerated to be able to get saved!

 

[MB]

It doesn't make sense if you think today's gospel is the same as the original. The gospel is simply an announcement that whoever believes has eternal life. It never was an offer for the self-righteous to save themselves Billy Graham style.

This is not true because Calvinism hates it. You hate it because scripture never back's up your methods of Salvation. The Bible says ask and you shall receive. This is what you deny with your total depravity and inability which is false

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Your excuses are the false doctrines you believe.. If your method of Salvation was possible then Corneilus would not have needed anything let alone Peter..

I never liked Billy Graham. Yet he's not the first to give men the opportunity to ask so they can receive Salvation. Corneilus must have asked because God sent him Peter so that he might hear the gospel first. There was no spontainus Salvation out of thin air like you imagine.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

This is not true because Calvinism hates it. You hate it because scripture never back's up your methods of Salvation. The Bible says ask and you shall receive. This is what you deny with your total depravity and inability which is false

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Your excuses are the false doctrines you believe.. If your method of Salvation was possible then Corneilus would not have needed anything let alone Peter..

I never liked Billy Graham. Yet he's not the first to give men the opportunity to ask so they can receive Salvation. Corneilus must have asked because God sent him Peter so that he might hear the gospel first. There was no spontainus Salvation out of thin air like you imagine.
MB

The ones who will seek and ask are those who hear the voice of the Shepard, his own who have been given ears to hear Him by God!

 

[MB]

No, “Calvinists” teach man has no freewill because of our sin nature.

Men are saved because God is sovereign.

peace to you

God is not Soveregin He is all powerful. If He were Sovergein then there would be no sin or need for the Son to return. Satan rules this world for now. Jesus will rule in the millennium. He has to return to rule.And there will be war over who rules
MB

 

[MB]

The ones who will seek and ask are those who hear the voice of the Shepard, his own who have been given ears to hear Him by God!

This completely non-biblical nonsense. The ones who ask are the ones who are convinced and convicted by the Holy Spirit and by Hearing the Gospel
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

So does the Lord not know yet if and who will be saved then?

how do you equate God's foreknowledge with the Death of Jesus being potential?

 

[MB]

Cornelius was obviously born again long before he heard Peter preach. The gospel saves us from the pitfalls of life. But you must already be saved in order to hear it in truth.

Pure nonsense Certainly not Biblical. You don't seem to believe in what scripture says It seems you make up the nonsense you proclaim.Not to mention that the gospel hadn't been written yet.
MB

 

[37818]

God is not Soveregin He is all powerful.

The word soveregin has the meaning of having supreme permanent authority.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have no doubt that I am born again. I have Holy Spirit indwelling. Holy Spirit testifies with my spirit that I am a child of God.

You have expressed doubt s about my salvation, because I don’t believe exactly like you do.

Just say it plainly, if you are able. Otherwise, stop the vague accusations.

peace to you

people like to find loop holes around bb rules to make direct accusations about others on this board. Since this person refuses to deny that is his intention it is clear it is.

Other ways people get around making accusations on this board is by doing so in a general sense without using names in a conversation or thread where they know people in that conversation or thread has participated in that which they are making the accusation about.

in both cases it lacks integrity

 

[SavedByGrace]

Cornelius was obviously born again long before he heard Peter preach. The gospel saves us from the pitfalls of life. But you must already be saved in order to hear it in truth.

this is heresy, pure and simple! a sinner can be born again BEFORE they repent and believe? This is NONSENSE!