why can't God Declare A sinner As Justified By Jesus Atonement?

[Yeshua1]

By faith in him alone, and THAT Grace of the Cross, as saving them?

 

[savedbymercy]

A Person is declared Justified by Christ's Death without Faith, for the Resurrection declared everyone Christ died in behalf of Justified ! Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Then later on those who have been Justifed by His Blood, have it revealed to them by Faith Rom 5:1

 

[The Biblicist]

By faith in him alone, and THAT Grace of the Cross, as saving them?

SBM does not know what he is talking about. He is directly contradicting the Word of God Rom. 8:28. He denies we are justified "BY FAITH" when the scriptures repeatedly say otherwise. He pits scripture against scripture and that is always the sign of a false doctrine being defended.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

SBM does not know what he is talking about.

Paul does, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Christ's Death for His Elect did satisy God's Law and Justice and therefore He Justified them, Christ's Resurrection proved it !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



Paul does, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Christ's Death for His Elect did satisy God's Law and Justice and therefore He Justified them, Christ's Resurrection proved it !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

that is the basis of our justification, but ONLY saves us when we palce faith in jesus!

 

[savedbymercy]

that is the basis of our justification, but ONLY saves us when we palce faith in jesus!

Thats Justification by works, by what a man does !

 

[Yeshua1]

Thats Justification by works, by what a man does !

I merely receive from God His gift of eternal life in Yeshua!

IF I don't claim my Gift, will not get it!

 

[Moriah]

By faith in him alone, and THAT Grace of the Cross, as saving them?

The person has faith after hearing the message, after being taught, and persuaded. What do you think they are being taught? What do you think they are having faith in Jesus concerning? What do you think they are hearing? What do you think is the message that saves?

We are taught that we are sinners, and that Jesus died for our sins. I do not know anyone who did not hear the message and still not know they have to give up sins. I have heard of people who said they believe in Jesus, but they did not want to give up any sins. So then, what good is their faith if they do not agree with the message that saves?

How can such a faith save them? If they hear the message of Jesus Christ, and that Jesus died for our sins, but they do not want to give up those sins.

 

[savedbymercy]

If a man is justifed before God only after he does something, like place his faith in Christ, that is salvation by works, a False Gospel all day long !

 

[Yeshua1]

The person has faith after hearing the message, after being taught, and persuaded. What do you think they are being taught? What do you think they are having faith in Jesus concerning? What do you think they are hearing? What do you think is the message that saves?

We are taught that we are sinners, and that Jesus died for our sins. I do not know anyone who did not hear the message and still not know they have to give up sins. I have heard of people who said they believe in Jesus, but they did not want to give up any sins. So then, what good is their faith if they do not agree with the message that saves?

How can such a faith save them? If they hear the message of Jesus Christ, and that Jesus died for our sins, but they do not want to give up those sins.

God does NOT require a sinner to give up ANY sin in order to be saved! "Just as I am", and when he places faith in yeshua and receives new life in Christ, THAN the "cleaning up" process of how we should be living begins!

 

[savedbymercy]

and when he places faith in yeshua and receives new life in Christ,

This is heresy, first of all, it takes Spiritual Life to believe on Christ, secondlly, placing something somewhere is an act of man, so again you teach salvation by works !

 

[Moriah]

God does NOT require a sinner to give up ANY sin in order to be saved! "Just as I am", and when he places faith in yeshua and receives new life in Christ, THAN the "cleaning up" process of how we should be living begins!

Repent is being sorry for your sins and the desire not to do them anymore.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Yeshua1]

Repent is being sorry for your sins and the desire not to do them anymore.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

to repent is to make a change in direction... What can a sinner change mind about? taht he can save Himself! repent is to understand I cannot save myself, and wholly lean and rely/trust upon Jesus and his work!

 

[savedbymercy]

Yesh

to repent is to make a change in direction... What can a sinner change mind about?

Yes, and the Christ I serve, gives His Chosen ones He died for Repentance, a change of mind Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

He gives it as a free Gift of His Grace.

It comes by His Resurrection from the dead, whereby they are begotten again as per 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This word begotten is the greek word anagennaō and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

See, that is how He gives His Elect Repentance, and New Life through Himself, by giving them New Birth by His Spirit. Thats the testimony of the Christ I serve !

Does yours give Repentance like that ?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yesh



Yes, and the Christ I serve, gives His Chosen ones He died for Repentance, a change of mind Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

He gives it as a free Gift of His Grace.

It comes by His Resurrection from the dead, whereby they are begotten again as per 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This word begotten is the greek word anagennaō and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

See, that is how He gives His Elect Repentance, and New Life through Himself, by giving them New Birth by His Spirit. Thats the testimony of the Christ I serve !

Does yours give Repentance like that ?

Mine is that of the Apostles peter/paul and John... What about yours?

 

[savedbymercy]

Mine is that of the Apostles peter/paul and John... What about yours?

You do not believe in the Gospel that the Apostle Peter nan Paul preached, for you teach salvation by works ! Your gospel tells men that they must do something to get saved. You call it placing your faith in Christ, so that is what you teach that saves a man, his act of placing his faith in christ. Thats works, now show me where paul or Peter teach that you get yourself saved by placing your faith in Christ !

 

[billwald]

God CAN save anyone he chooses "in" Christ Jesus.

 

[Yeshua1]

You do not believe in the Gospel that the Apostle Peter nan Paul preached, for you teach salvation by works ! Your gospel tells men that they must do something to get saved. You call it placing your faith in Christ, so that is what you teach that saves a man, his act of placing his faith in christ. Thats works, now show me where paul or Peter teach that you get yourself saved by placing your faith in Christ !

jesus said that UNLESS one rceived Him by faith, believing onto Him to save them, they ARE lost in their sins!

ALL of the Apostles agreed with yeshua, do you?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

By faith in him alone, and THAT Grace of the Cross, as saving them?

What purpose are we saved for? We can both agree good works don't save us. But can we agree that we are saved to do good works? Just as Paul pointed out

7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Titus 2:7,8



This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:8



And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Titus 3:14

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Eph 2:8-9

Therefore to believe but not to do good works is that really being justified before God? Clearly James says

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Don't Jump over me! James makes it clear that to be justified and to have a saving faith that works must be there. He said it not me. And its clearly in the scriptures.

 

[Yeshua1]

What purpose are we saved for? We can both agree good works don't save us. But can we agree that we are saved to do good works? Just as Paul pointed out


Therefore to believe but not to do good works is that really being justified before God? Clearly James says
Don't Jump over me! James makes it clear that to be justified and to have a saving faith that works must be there. He said it not me. And its clearly in the scriptures.

baptists would say that the point of entry into the Kingdom of Christ, and being saved is at the moment one receives/belives in the name of the Son of God yeshua...

Good works are to be evidence of ones profession of faith, but NOT required in order to have been first saved!

Its the SAME for all sinners, as NONE have any works to bring to God, as ONLY faith in yeshua is acceptable to bring a sinner to becoming justified by yeshua!