why can't God Declare A sinner As Justified By Jesus Atonement?

[Thinkingstuff]

baptists would say that the point of entry into the Kingdom of Christ, and being saved is at the moment one receives/belives in the name of the Son of God yeshua...

Yes Catholics believe this as well because if one were to die upon obtaining faith not just a belief or consent to an intellectual knowledge of Christ but a belief that leads to good works, and immediately dies they will go to heaven. However it is expected that they would have followed Christ obediently into baptism where the Holy Spirit would have come upon them in a special way which harkens to the Holy Spirit decending when Jesus was baptized. However, what happens, in a baptist belief, if a person doesn't die and refuses to be baptized upon reciept of belief? Or follow Christ obediently but decides rather to live in sin? According to baptist soteriology one of two things can happen 1) they were "never saved" to begin with" or 2) they will go to heaven but have a spiritually miserable life. Catholics would disagree with both premises. But say the man was given knowledge of Jesus Christ but chose the world over Christ.

Good works are to be evidence of ones profession of faith, but NOT required in order to have been first saved!

I agree with the first part of this statement but the second I must question. The faith one has in the begining must be of the sort that leads to evidence of faith or good works. Not just an intellectual accent where good works are an option that can be taken or left behind. This is the fundamental problem I see with Protestants. Not all mind you but those of the baptist idiology. Good works are optional or they don't have to be worked at. One can believe in Jesus make great proclimation of faith but can continue in sin and God will turn a blind eye to their sin because one you have an intellectual assent to the faith then you are assured of heaven. You cannot be made alive in faith then live in death you will starve and die. Regeneration happens immediately at your conversion (receipt of faith) Ie made alive but you must then live else you'll starve and die. Once alive you must then be live by seeking further regeneration or transformation into the likeness of Jesus Christ. Whether you choose to live in sin or not is not an option Both Paul and James attest to this.

Its the SAME for all sinners, as NONE have any works to bring to God, as ONLY faith in yeshua is acceptable to bring a sinner to becoming justified by yeshua!

As James points out Justification isn't forensic. Its not a one time thing. Faith and good works work together.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes Catholics believe this as well because if one were to die upon obtaining faith not just a belief or consent to an intellectual knowledge of Christ but a belief that leads to good works, and immediately dies they will go to heaven. However it is expected that they would have followed Christ obediently into baptism where the Holy Spirit would have come upon them in a special way which harkens to the Holy Spirit decending when Jesus was baptized. However, what happens, in a baptist belief, if a person doesn't die and refuses to be baptized upon reciept of belief? Or follow Christ obediently but decides rather to live in sin? According to baptist soteriology one of two things can happen 1) they were "never saved" to begin with" or 2) they will go to heaven but have a spiritually miserable life. Catholics would disagree with both premises. But say the man was given knowledge of Jesus Christ but chose the world over Christ.

I agree with the first part of this statement but the second I must question. The faith one has in the begining must be of the sort that leads to evidence of faith or good works. Not just an intellectual accent where good works are an option that can be taken or left behind. This is the fundamental problem I see with Protestants. Not all mind you but those of the baptist idiology. Good works are optional or they don't have to be worked at. One can believe in Jesus make great proclimation of faith but can continue in sin and God will turn a blind eye to their sin because one you have an intellectual assent to the faith then you are assured of heaven. You cannot be made alive in faith then live in death you will starve and die. Regeneration happens immediately at your conversion (receipt of faith) Ie made alive but you must then live else you'll starve and die. Once alive you must then be live by seeking further regeneration or transformation into the likeness of Jesus Christ. Whether you choose to live in sin or not is not an option Both Paul and James attest to this.

As James points out Justification isn't forensic. Its not a one time thing. Faith and good works work together.

the bible extremely clear that a sinner gets justified, right, in sight of god by trusting in/placing faith in jesus as their saviour... PERIOD...

And that ONCE already saved by God, THEN we do the baptism, take communion etc...

good works are evidence that the salvation from God really already happened!

 

[savedbymercy]

jesus said that UNLESS one rceived Him by faith, believing onto Him to save them, they ARE lost in their sins!

ALL of the Apostles agreed with yeshua, do you?

You teach against what Jesus Teach and His Apostles, you teach Salvation by Works !

 

[Yeshua1]

You teach against what Jesus Teach and His Apostles, you teach Salvation by Works !

what MUST I do to be saved, paul was asked...

BELIEVE on the Lord jesus, and you SHALL be saved!

eWas the Apostle ignorant on what had to be done ?

 

[savedbymercy]

what MUST I do to be saved, paul was asked...

BELIEVE on the Lord jesus, and you SHALL be saved!

eWas the Apostle ignorant on what had to be done ?

You teach salvation by works, by man doing something to get saved, that is a false gospel, for scripture says Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Yeshua1]

You teach salvation by works, by man doing something to get saved, that is a false gospel, for scripture says Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

the gift of god is eternal life in jesus the lord, but as ANY gift, we MUST receive it in order for it to be applied towards us!

 

[Revmitchell]

the gift of god is eternal life in jesus the lord, but as ANY gift, we MUST receive it in order for it to be applied towards us!

Are you originally from Asia or somewhere other than the US?

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you originally from Asia or somewhere other than the US?

Why would you ask that?

 

[Revmitchell]

Why would you ask that?

Because your posts lack basic English writing skills that the average American knows and uses.

 

[The Biblicist]

the gift of god is eternal life in jesus the lord, but as ANY gift, we MUST receive it in order for it to be applied towards us!

Both TS and SBM are teaching a false gospel. The former (TS) confuses Biblical justification as a completed forensic objective action with subjective regeneration and progressive sanctification.

The latter (SBM) perverts the covenant of redemption by replacing the application work by the Holy Spirit with the provisional work of the Son for the elect. He cannot discern the difference between the LEGAL BASIS for justification and the LEGAL APPLICATION for justification. He makes the Son usurp the office of the Holy Spirit and thus confuses the distinctive covenant work of the Son with that of the Spirit.

Moreover, SBM makes Paul a liar as Paul repeatedly denies that justifying faith is a work but rather is "by grace" (Rom. 4:16) and is a "gift of God" (Eph. 2:8). He simply is not able to comprehend that justifying faith is the inherent condition of the new heart given to the elect by God (Ezek. 36:26 as contrasted to Deut. 29:4). Thus, justifying faith is inherently inseparable in the new birth as clearly taught in Ephesians 2:8 and in the words "for by grace are ye saved THROUGH faith" and is "the workmanship of God created in Christ Jesus" BEFORE "good works" (which is where SBM wrongly places it).

Therefore, there is no such thing as either a unregenerated believer or a regenerated unbeliever.

 

[billwald]

>but as ANY gift, we MUST receive it in order for it to be applied towards us

If I registered a new car in your name it would be yours. Before 911 ID was not required to put money into a bank account.

A friend went to the local power company to plead for mercy because he was 2 months behind. They told him it was paid off. He can not explain it.

 

[The Biblicist]

>but as ANY gift, we MUST receive it in order for it to be applied towards us

If I registered a new car in your name it would be yours. Before 911 ID was not required to put money into a bank account.

A friend went to the local power company to plead for mercy because he was 2 months behind. They told him it was paid off. He can not explain it.

Well, at what point is the gift given?

 

[billwald]

The gift is given when title passes.

 

[The Biblicist]

The gift is given when title passes.

When does the title pass?

 

[savedbymercy]

the gift of god is eternal life in jesus the lord, but as ANY gift, we MUST receive it in order for it to be applied towards us!

Thats a works salvation, a salvation contingent upon man !

 

[The Biblicist]

Thats a works salvation, a salvation contingent upon man !

You are one messed up dude! A "gift" cannot be earned and works by definition are what a person does to merit something (Rom. 4:4). Receiving a gift is not works "for its is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast" - Eph. 2:8

 

[Yeshua1]

Thats a works salvation, a salvation contingent upon man !

No, for God is the One providing ALL of the needed 'work" to save me, its just that for him to apply that towards me, I simple receive it from Him!

 

[savedbymercy]

You are one messed up dude! A "gift" cannot be earned and works by definition are what a person does to merit something (Rom. 4:4). Receiving a gift is not works "for its is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast" - Eph. 2:8

If you defend that poster, you also promote salvation by works, conditioned on man !

 

[savedbymercy]

No, for God is the One providing ALL of the needed 'work" to save me, its just that for him to apply that towards me, I simple receive it from Him!

Receiving something is something you did, and obviously that is what made the difference for you in being saved or lost, what you did.

The person who is lost, is because he or she did not do what you were prudent or wise enough to do, and that was receive the gift, so you caused your self to differ from the one who did not receive something as you so wisely did, that is salvation by works all day long !

 

[Yeshua1]

Receiving something is something you did, and obviously that is what made the difference for you in being saved or lost, what you did.

The person who is lost, is because he or she did not do what you were prudent or wise enough to do, and that was receive the gift, so you caused your self to differ from the one who did not receive something as you so wisely did, that is salvation by works all day long !

IF you did not receive jesus by faith, you were never saved by God!