Why Confession?

[Cathode]

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with that person, and they with me.” Revelation 3

These are the Church of lukewarm believers, being told to be “earnest and repent”.

Lukewarmness and dithering in light and dark He hates.

Confession is how born again believers repent, how the Lord rebukes and disciplines us by conscience.

“They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or defends them.“

Confession clears the conscience before God.

Those who sin after being born again must still repent.

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.“

So we maintain righteousness by confession.

For Catholics we have an Apostolic priesthood Jesus established to forgive or retain sin, the priesthood of the Old Covenant was a foreshadowing of Christ’s priesthood in the New Covenant.

“Just as in the Old Testament the priest makes the leper clean or unclean, so in the New Testament the bishop and presbyter binds or looses not those who are innocent or guilty, but by reason of their office, when they have heard various kinds of sins, they know who is to be bound and who loosed.” Jerome, Commentary on Matthew, 3:16,19 (A.D. 398).

 

[Oseas3]

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with that person, and they with me.” Revelation 3

These are the Church of lukewarm believers, being told to be “earnest and repent”.

Lukewarmness and dithering in light and dark He hates.

Confession is how born again believers repent, how the Lord rebukes and disciplines us by conscience.

“They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or defends them.“

Confession clears the conscience before God.

Those who sin after being born again must still repent.

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.“

So we maintain righteousness by confession.

For Catholics we have an Apostolic priesthood Jesus established to forgive or retain sin, the priesthood of the Old Covenant was a foreshadowing of Christ’s priesthood in the New Covenant.

“Just as in the Old Testament the priest makes the leper clean or unclean, so in the New Testament the bishop and presbyter binds or looses not those who are innocent or guilty, but by reason of their office, when they have heard various kinds of sins, they know who is to be bound and who loosed.” Jerome, Commentary on Matthew, 3:16,19 (A.D. 398).

It was around the year 95AD, JESUS sent seven letters, a letter to the each one of the seven churches of Asia, because they were receiving strong influences from the satanic idolatry and apostasy of the Church of Rome(1John 2:18-19 combined with Romans 1:11-32) that already had developed a demonic structure-the demonic Papacy-, by the way at 95AD it was Clement I, Predecessor Anacletus, Successor Evaristus.
At 57AD Paul Apostle wrote to the Church of Rome warning the people about the instruments of Devil among them, saying:Romans 16:17-18, as follow:
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ(of course, they served to the Devil in the Church of Rome), but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches(SATANIC STRATEGY) deceive the hearts of the simple.

So, when my Lord JESUS sent letters to the Church of Asia, and left the church of Rome out of His circle and abandoned it, it was because long before the year 95AD the church of Rome ruled by Pope Clement I, it had already linked itself firstly to the Devil and his idolatries, and then to the agents of the Devil within the Roman Empire to kill the apostles and disciples of JESUS.

By the way, 38 years earlier, I mean around the year 57AD, Paul the Apostle wrote an epistle to the church of Rome in which he said and testified that it had been a powerful church and that he loved it so much (Romans 1:8-17), but in the year 57, around 30 years after the crucifixion of JESUS, the Apostle Paul wrote to the Church of Rome to rebuke it due to the idolatry that had taken over the Church and the consequent depravity of the modus vivendi of churchgoers after it be linked to the Roman Empire, and from where the name of the Church comes to this day, i.e. the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Cathode]

It was around the year 95AD, JESUS sent seven letters, a letter to the each one of the seven churches of Asia, because they were receiving strong influences from the satanic idolatry and apostasy of the Church of Rome(1John 2:18-19 combined with Romans 1:11-32) that already had developed a demonic structure-the demonic Papacy-, by the way at 95AD it was Clement I, Predecessor Anacletus, Successor Evaristus.
At 57AD Paul Apostle wrote to the Church of Rome warning the people about the instruments of Devil among them, saying:Romans 16:17-18, as follow:
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ(of course, they served to the Devil in the Church of Rome), but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches(SATANIC STRATEGY) deceive the hearts of the simple.

So, when my Lord JESUS sent letters to the Church of Asia, and left the church of Rome out of His circle and abandoned it, it was because long before the year 95AD the church of Rome ruled by Pope Clement I, it had already linked itself firstly to the Devil and his idolatries, and then to the agents of the Devil within the Roman Empire to kill the apostles and disciples of JESUS.

By the way, 38 years earlier, I mean around the year 57AD, Paul the Apostle wrote an epistle to the church of Rome in which he said and testified that it had been a powerful church and that he loved it so much (Romans 1:8-17), but in the year 57, around 30 years after the crucifixion of JESUS, the Apostle Paul wrote to the Church of Rome to rebuke it due to the idolatry that had taken over the Church and the consequent depravity of the modus vivendi of churchgoers after it be linked to the Roman Empire, and from where the name of the Church comes to this day, i.e. the Roman Catholic Church.

That’s your private fiction.

 

[JonC]

The problem with confession is it is a private admission of sin followed by a type of penance.

Biblically we are to confess our sins, not to a priest but to the congregation. There are several reasons for this (each can read them in the Bible for themselves).

Biblically we do need to repent, but penance is pagan. Our mediator is Christ and He is faithful to forgive.

 

[Cathode]

The problem with confession is it is a private admission of sin followed by a type of penance.

Biblically we are to confess our sins, not to a priest but to the congregation. There are several reasons for this (each can read them in the Bible for themselves).

Biblically we do need to repent, but penance is pagan. Our mediator is Christ and He is faithful to forgive.

Penance isn’t pagan. Paul imposed a penance himself.

“A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? ” 1 Cor: 5

Paul later lifts the penance.

“For such a one this punishment by the majority is enough; so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,” 2 Cor 2.

So here we see a temporal penance is imposed and after repentance acknowledged, an indulgence is given lifting the penance.
Paul is forgiving sin in the sight of Christ who is in Heaven.
Paul is binding on earth the guy forgiven and heaven will also bind this man forgiven.

Biblically they confessed to the whole congregation which included the elders and overseers who also had binding and loosing authority over sin.

 

[JonC]

Penance isn’t pagan. Paul imposed a penance himself.

“A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? ” 1 Cor: 5

Paul later lifts the penance.

“For such a one this punishment by the majority is enough; so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,” 2 Cor 2.

So here we see a temporal penance is imposed and after repentance acknowledged, an indulgence is given lifting the penance.
Paul is forgiving sin in the sight of Christ who is in Heaven.
Paul is binding on earth the guy forgiven and heaven will also bind this man forgiven.

Biblically they confessed to the whole congregation which included the elders and overseers who also had binding and loosing authority over sin.

No. Paul disciplined the flesh. There is a difference.

One is discipline so that you will not sin. The other is self-punishment because of a sin(s).

The former is biblical. The latter is trying to pay for your own sins.

 

[Cathode]

No. Paul disciplined the flesh.

It’s what we call temporal punishment ie penance.

 

[JonC]

It’s what we call temporal punishment ie penance.

The problem is you are confusing discipline with punishment.

To discipline the flesh (think paul) is so that you will not sin. Penance is self punishment because you have sinned.

These are not the same things.

 

[Cathode]

The problem is you are confusing discipline with punishment.

To discipline the flesh (think paul) is so that you will not sin. Penance is self punishment because you have sinned.

No Paul imposed the temporal punishment. Expulsion, the guy didn’t self expel.

“What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

Then lifted the temporal punishment. Re-admittance.

“The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.”

So penance is biblical.

 

[JonC]

No Paul imposed the temporal punishment. Expulsion, the guy didn’t self expel.

“What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

Then lifted the temporal punishment. Re-admittance.

“The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.”

So penance is biblical.

You are confused when it comes to the Bible.

Paul did say we don't judge the World, but judging those inside is not penance. We do not even punish the unrepentant (we expel them from the congregation).

 

[Cathode]

You are confused when it comes to the Bible.

Paul did say we don't judge the World, but judging those inside is not penance. We do not even punish the unrepentant (we expel them from the congregation).

Nonsense.

Paul even calls it a punishment, it’s holy writ in front of your face.

It was a temporal punishment, ie a penance.

 

[JonC]

Nonsense.

Paul even calls it a punishment, it’s holy writ in front of your face.

It was a temporal punishment, ie a penance.

No. Paul calls it "discipline". You could say "wear down". Some would say "bruise".

But Paul does NOT say "punish". The idea is discipline so that one will not sin.

Here is the passage:


Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway

 

[Oseas3]

It was around the year 95AD, JESUS sent seven letters, a letter to the each one of the seven churches of Asia, because they were receiving strong influences from the satanic idolatry and apostasy of the Church of Rome(1John 2:18-19 combined with Romans 1:11-32) that already had developed a demonic structure-the demonic Papacy-, by the way at 95AD it was Clement I, Predecessor Anacletus, Successor Evaristus.
At 57AD Paul Apostle wrote to the Church of Rome warning the people about the instruments of Devil among them, saying:Romans 16:17-18, as follow:
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ(of course, they served to the Devil in the Church of Rome), but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches(SATANIC STRATEGY) deceive the hearts of the simple.

So, when my Lord JESUS sent letters to the Church of Asia, and left the church of Rome out of His circle and abandoned it, it was because long before the year 95AD the church of Rome ruled by Pope Clement I, it had already linked itself firstly to the Devil and his idolatries, and then to the agents of the Devil within the Roman Empire to kill the apostles and disciples of JESUS.

By the way, 38 years earlier, I mean around the year 57AD, Paul the Apostle wrote an epistle to the church of Rome in which he said and testified that it had been a powerful church and that he loved it so much (Romans 1:8-17), but in the year 57, around 30 years after the crucifixion of JESUS, the Apostle Paul wrote to the Church of Rome to rebuke it due to the idolatry that had taken over the Church and the consequent depravity of the modus vivendi of churchgoers after it be linked to the Roman Empire, and from where the name of the Church comes to this day, i.e. the Roman Catholic Church.

That’s your private fiction.

There are no arguments against FACTS. You are not able to contest the Truth, you are ruled by the demonic Church of Rome you attend, the Church that become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage/pitfall of every unclean and hateful bird(followers of the Roman Catholic Church).

Paul Apostle wrote to the Church of Rome saying: their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

This is what you are doing here, but only one who is follower of the demonic Church you attend is poisoned by your foolish and demonic messages.

 

[Cathode]

No. Paul calls it "discipline". You could say "wear down". Some would say "bruise".

But Paul does NOT say "punish". The idea is discipline so that one will not sin.

Here is the passage:


Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway

That’s mortification, you impose cold showers and physical hardening to discipline your appetites.

What was imposed on this guy was penance, temporal punishment, Paul’s concern that he might suffer excessive sorrow whilst being punished, which meant he was sorrowful and not being expelled unrepentant.

Clear cut case in Holy writ.

 

[JonC]

That’s mortification, you impose cold showers and physical hardening to discipline your appetites.

What was imposed on this guy was penance, temporal punishment, Paul’s concern that he might suffer excessive sorrow whilst being punished, which meant he was sorrowful and not being expelled unrepentant.

Clear cut case in Holy writ.

The difference is not the action but the reason.

In the passage Paul is talking about disciplining the flesh so as not to sin.

Penance is an attempt to show repentance over a sin or sins committed.


The first is biblical. The second is not.

You may think it is a slight difference and you changing Scripture to support penance a small matter.

In a way, it could be (you sin, repent, and are forgiven and knowing that weakness you discipline yourself so as not to repeat the sin).

BUT penance is self-punishment for a sin committed (not so that one will not commit sin, but because one has sinned). That is a heresy.

 

[Cathode]

The difference is not the action but the reason.

In the passage Paul is talking about disciplining the flesh so as not to sin.

Penance is an attempt to show repentance over a sin or sins committed.


The first is biblical. The second is not.

You may think it is a slight difference and you changing Scripture to support penance a small matter.

In a way, it could be (you sin, repent, and are forgiven and knowing that weakness you discipline yourself so as not to repeat the sin).

BUT penance is self-punishment for a sin committed (not so that one will not commit sin, but because one has sinned). That is a heresy.

Mortification is self punishment, Paul practiced this himself.

Penance is the temporal punishment imposed by the Church for the repentant.

Which is exactly what happened here. He was expelled.

“Sufficient to such a man is this punishment” KJV

 

[Oseas3]

That’s mortification, you impose cold showers and physical hardening to discipline your appetites.

What was imposed on this guy was penance, temporal punishment, Paul’s concern that he might suffer excessive sorrow whilst being punished, which meant he was sorrowful and not being expelled unrepentant.

Paul Apostle had been guided by the Holy Spirit, by the Spirit of GOD, but what you and your guide do, I mean the demonic Pope, it is a mere and satanic imitation of what Paul did. What you and your guide do, it is by the spirit of Devil, and draws the souls to the hell's fire by the traps/ pitfall invented by your church by/through the spirit of Devil.

 

[JonC]

Mortification is self punishment, Paul practiced this himself.

Penance is the temporal punishment imposed by the Church for the repentant.

Which is exactly what happened here. He was expelled.

“Sufficient to such a man is this punishment” KJV

Lol....no, you are wrong.

Mortification means to "subdue" ones bodily desires.

Mortification - "the subjection and denial of bodily passions and appetites by abstinence or self-inflicted pain or discomfort."


Punishment relates to a penalty. You are punished for something. You do something and experience punishment.


And Paul does not use "mortification" (although a good English word for Paul's statement) or "punishment".

Penance is unbiblical. You change God's Word to try and justify Catholic paganism. But you can't derive that paganism from Scripture.

You fail.

 

[Cathode]

Lol....no, you are wrong.

Mortification means to "subdue" ones bodily desires.

Mortification - "the subjection and denial of bodily passions and appetites by abstinence or self-inflicted pain or discomfort."


Punishment relates to a penalty. You are punished for something. You do something and experience punishment.


And Paul does not use "mortification" (although a good English word for Paul's statement) or "punishment".

Penance is unbiblical. You change God's Word to try and justify Catholic paganism. But you can't derive that paganism from Scripture.

You fail.

I didn’t change God’s Word, I quoted it, even your KJV.

It’s a clear cut case in Scripture.

 

[JonC]

I didn’t change God’s Word, I quoted it, even your KJV.

It’s a clear cut case in Scripture.

No. You changed God's Word. Paul's words in the passage are God's words.

You seem to think that minor changes are OK. They are not.

And it's not my KJV. I'm not Anglican, and it isn't my preferred translation.

Even the Catholic Bible clarifies "punish" by allowing the remainder of the verse ("so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified".) Not penance.


Certainly not Paul's words. He speaks of discipline, subduing, mortification, so that he will not sin.

We are talking about Confession and penance (doing penance after one has sinned, like repentance).

Paul speaks of trying not to sin.

There is a big difference.