So where did the demons go after the pigs drowned in the lake?
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Why did Jesus allow the Devils to attack the pigs?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
I doubt that the demons wanted to kill the men, that would be destroying their hosts.
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I think it's likely that those who owned the swine had no business owning them due to the O.T. Dietary Law, I think Jesus used it to show us what Demons do to us, and I think it shows us that God allows devils to cause us trouble when we are living wrong.
In one of the Psalms it talks about how God sent evil angels to Egypt because of their idolatry.
In one of the Psalms it talks about how God sent evil angels to Egypt because of their idolatry.
How did you come to this conclusion based on the text Matthew 8, Mark 5 or Luke 8?
Legion was powerless to possess the swine without Jesus' permission.
Matthew 8:31 NAS77
31 And the demons began to entreat Him, saying, "If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine."
Mark 5:12-13 NAS77
12 And the demons entreated Him, saying, "Send us into the swine so that we may enter them."
13 And He gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea.
Luke 8:32 NAS77
32 Now there was a herd of many swine feeding there on the mountain; and the demons entreated Him to permit them to enter the swine. And He gave them permission.
The demons had no power. The could only submit to the power of Jesus. Their choices were beg to possess swine or be cast into the abyss.
Luke 8:31 NAS77
31 And they were entreating Him not to command them to depart into the abyss.
You cannot derive the intent of the demons from the text.
Gadara probably was not predominantly Jewish. The Romans had placed it under the rule of Herod the Great, but after his death (which some of us probably reread about fairly recently), it was subject to the province of Syria, and it was noted for cynical philosophers and poets.
Thanks.....
We have to be careful not to try to put some super spiritual intent behind every single move made in scripture. As in this case, the choice of the pigs was most likely inconsequential to any intent. Another way of putting it is those pigs may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It is not necessary to try and turn demons entering pigs into a doctrine.
It is not necessary to try and turn demons entering pigs into a doctrine.
Killjoy. :tongue3:
I thought maybe we could rent a large warehouse near a major airport and start some sort of bacon outpouring. I've been practicing saying HUH at the end of every sentence, "somebodygivemeaHonolulu, HUH".
[strange yet amazing words]Ee-e-e-oh-mum-a-weh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, Ee-e-e-oh-mum-a-weh[/donewiththat]
Give me some pigs! Make 'em squeal! Make 'em run!!
Yes they did.
Oh yes I can. They killed the pigs and wanted to do the same to the man. It was not until Jesus arrived that plans changed. The demon possessed man did not wear clothes which would certainly result in death by a animal, snake, or scorpion eventually. Do you know how venomous a cobra or deadly scorpion can be to a human? Also the gospel of Mark records that he cut himself indicating that the devils wanted to kill him.
No idea. But looking at the three synoptics I conclude the devils wanted to kill the man unless you think someone cutting himself with stones and living outside without clothes is normal. Eventually a snake or scorpion would kill the man with a bite.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
What you say *may* be true. Or it may not. There's no way of knowing based on the scripture. But based on other scriptures, when a person is demon possessed, the demons do not want that person to die. They lose a host and their voice into the physical world if that person dies.
At the first I stifled the impulse to share a type I see in this account because I know it will go over like whale dung, but here goes; the Passage from Psalms 78:
49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, Wrath, and indignation, and trouble, A band of angels of evil.
Egypt is a type of Apostate Judaism:
And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. Rev 11:8
To that apostate generation The Prophet told them:
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12
The eyewitness account that Josephus gives of what transpired among the Jews during the 66-70 AD war shows the fulfillment of this prophecy on 'that generation'. He calls it a ' distemper' that set in on them. They literally turned on one another, self destructed, committing mass 'suicide' as foretold in other prophecies. What transpired among them was literally pure lawlessness and mayhem. Titus even held off from attacking Jerusalem for two years as long as the Jews were killing themselves. IMO, the swine feeding on the mountain are the antitype of 'that generation'.
Concerning the demoniac, the antitype of the former pagan, idol worshipping Gentiles:
And they went out to see what had come to pass; and they came to Jesus, and found the man, from whom the demons were gone out, sitting, clothed and in his right mind, at the feet of Jesus: and they were afraid. Lu 8:35
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You can't get that from the text, and if the demons wanted these men dead why didn't they plant suicidal thoughts in them so they would do it, rather than torture them with self mutilation?
Pure conjecture. As long as we're making stuff up, why didn't the demons have the men play with snakes and scorpions to ensure they got bit? Demons want people to suffer, that's why they made the men go naked and cut themselves.
All I've read is the Luke account from the King James.
It says that the man had been living this way a "long time". And that the demons "often caught" him and tormented him into the woods and living this way amongst the tombstones and naked and abusing his own body.
I get from this that their purpose in tormenting him was not to kill him, but to prolong the agony of living this way. There are things worse than death and this man was living it.
I see them wanting to torment the man to the point where the image of God was destroyed. But it didn't happen.
I also see in Luke where after Jesus told the demon to "come out" that the demon did not want to come out.
Why did the pigs die? I think because they aren't made in the image of God. If that many pigs could be driven to their deaths and the same amount of demons entered one man and could not kill him or make him kill himself, that that speaks of humanity being different than animals because we are made in the image of God.
I think ultimately that Jesus was making His own majesty, authority, and power be made known.
Yes, with the death of the pigs, the demon's ability to totally destroy was made known, but Jesus performed miracles to testify of the Father's power and His own power and authority.
The pigs died, but Jesus received the recognition for having the authority over demons, humanity, and all creation. To me, that was the whole point.
It says that the man had been living this way a "long time". And that the demons "often caught" him and tormented him into the woods and living this way amongst the tombstones and naked and abusing his own body.
I get from this that their purpose in tormenting him was not to kill him, but to prolong the agony of living this way. There are things worse than death and this man was living it.
I see them wanting to torment the man to the point where the image of God was destroyed. But it didn't happen.
I also see in Luke where after Jesus told the demon to "come out" that the demon did not want to come out.
Why did the pigs die? I think because they aren't made in the image of God. If that many pigs could be driven to their deaths and the same amount of demons entered one man and could not kill him or make him kill himself, that that speaks of humanity being different than animals because we are made in the image of God.
I think ultimately that Jesus was making His own majesty, authority, and power be made known.
Yes, with the death of the pigs, the demon's ability to totally destroy was made known, but Jesus performed miracles to testify of the Father's power and His own power and authority.
The pigs died, but Jesus received the recognition for having the authority over demons, humanity, and all creation. To me, that was the whole point.
Maybe one day they would have killed the man. I say it's conjecture on both sides. You can't say the Devils did not want to kill the man, but most certainly a bite from a cobra would have done the job. Or do you believe that Cobras cannot kill a man?
Most certainly? Cobra bites are not always fatal.