Why did Jesus allow the Devils to attack the pigs?

[evangelist6589]

Most certainly? Cobra bites are not always fatal.

With 1st century doctors???

 

[Rolfe]

With 1st century doctors???

Correct. A cobra is capable of biting without injecting venom.

I eagerly await another Rabbit Award.

 

[evangelist6589]

Correct. A cobra is capable of biting without injecting venom.

I eagerly await another Rabbit Award.

That does not take away the scorpions and lions in the land. Do you know much about the scorpions in that region and their toxicity levels?

 

[Rolfe]

That does not take away the scorpions and lions in the land. Do you know much about the scorpions in that region and their toxicity levels?

You are joking, right? :laugh: I was rebutting your comment about cobras, not making statements about lions and scorpions.

 

[InTheLight]

Maybe one day they would have killed the man. I say it's conjecture on both sides. You can't say the Devils did not want to kill the man, but most certainly a bite from a cobra would have done the job. Or do you believe that Cobras cannot kill a man?

Show me where cobras are mentioned in the text. Might as well say a meteorite could hit him. Did you know that a meteorite can kill a man? Or don't you believe that meteorites can kill a man?

 

[padredurand]

Oh yes I can.

Not from the text you can't.

They killed the pigs and wanted to do the same to the man. It was not until Jesus arrived that plans changed. The demon possessed man did not wear clothes which would certainly result in death by a animal, snake, or scorpion eventually. Do you know how venomous a cobra or deadly scorpion can be to a human? Also the gospel of Mark records that he cut himself indicating that the devils wanted to kill him.

Reread the three accounts.

• The demon's intent is never made known.
• The possibility of death by other means is never mentioned.
• Other animals are never mentioned
• Snakes are never mentioned.
• Scorpions are never mentioned.
• Cobras are never mentioned.

 

[evangelist6589]

Show me where cobras are mentioned in the text. Might as well say a meteorite could hit him. Did you know that a meteorite can kill a man? Or don't you believe that meteorites can kill a man?

Just because they are not mentioned does not mean they were not there! Do you think that flies and birds were not there in that region? They were not mentioned right?

Mark is the only gospel that mentions jesus was with the wild beasts in the wilderness during the temptation so does this mean that if you read Matt and Luke you would conclude there was no animals living in Palestine?

 

[evangelist6589]

Not from the text you can't.







Reread the three accounts.

• The demon's intent is never made known.
  
• The possibility of death by other means is never mentioned.
  
• Other animals are never mentioned
  
• Snakes are never mentioned.
  
• Scorpions are never mentioned.
  
• Cobras are never mentioned.
  

Okay so by your logic there were no flies, birds, nor other animals besides pigs in that region. Impossible considering the huge herd of pigs. Have you ever been around a pig? Flies love them. But no they were not there because they are never mentioned. The bible does not need to spell everything out for us.

 

[InTheLight]

Just because they are not mentioned does not mean they were not there! Do you think that flies and birds were not there in that region? They were not mentioned right?

Very interesting, considering that in this thread you started:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97562

you argue that two strong arguments for the pretrib rapture are:

1. None of the Old Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2).

2. None of the New Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Matt. 13:30, 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thess. 1:9-10, 5:4-9; 2 Thess. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18)

In this other thread you argue that because something is not mentioned, it is not there, yet in this thread you argue that because something is not mentioned, it means it is there.

I believe this is called an inconsistent position.

Anyway, you did not refute my argument that if the demons truly wanted the possessed men to be dead, they could have killed them many times over, yet did not. If they wanted the men dead, why didn't they take action to see that it happened? If they can make a man run around naked and cut himself with stones surely they can make a man cut his wrists and bleed out?

 

[Sapper Woody]

That does not take away the scorpions and lions in the land. Do you know much about the scorpions in that region and their toxicity levels?

I do. The deadliest scorpion in the world lives in that area. Hottentotus scaber (spelling is probably off; I'm posting from memory). While in Iraq some guys caught some and made them fight camel spiders.



But, the demons had power of that man's body. If he was stung, they could have preserved him. Demons have the same power as angels, and are free to use that power as they will, within boundaries.



My conclusion is that I they wanted him dead, he would have already been dead. But I wouldn't get heated over it. It's just opinion, and changes nothing.

 

[padredurand]

Okay so by your logic there were no flies, birds, nor other animals besides pigs in that region. Impossible considering the huge herd of pigs. Have you ever been around a pig? Flies love them. But no they were not there because they are never mentioned. The bible does not need to spell everything out for us.

Do I think there were no flies around pigs? I was raised on a farm. I understand flies and farm animals. You missed the point. You are interjecting variables that are not part of the account and trying to get Scripture to say something that is not there. The man was possessed by demons that caused no end of torment. It was not flies, lion, tigers and bears.

You say the Bible need not spell everything out for us. I agree. The point of the whole encounter has nothing to do with pigs. It has everything to do with Jesus' power over the demons. Jesus could have commanded them to the abyss. He could have let them possess cows or deer or robins. He could have put them in a burlap sack. The point of the whole incident is the power and authority of Jesus Christ. The demons trembled at His coming. The demons feared His command.

Focus on the true Power in the story- Jesus Christ! There is no hidden meaning in pigs.

 

[evangelist6589]

I do. The deadliest scorpion in the world lives in that area. Hottentotus scaber (spelling is probably off; I'm posting from memory). While in Iraq some guys caught some and made them fight camel spiders.



But, the demons had power of that man's body. If he was stung, they could have preserved him. Demons have the same power as angels, and are free to use that power as they will, within boundaries.



My conclusion is that I they wanted him dead, he would have already been dead. But I wouldn't get heated over it. It's just opinion, and changes nothing.

This concludes this debate. I guess no one will know and this should not be a heated debate. Camel spiders? Are they toxic? Who won the fight?

 

[evangelist6589]

Nice debate

Fun debate but I think we have concluded it so I am off to other debates.

 

[quantumfaith]

Very interesting, considering that in this thread you started:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97562

you argue that two strong arguments for the pretrib rapture are:



In this other thread you argue that because something is not mentioned, it is not there, yet in this thread you argue that because something is not mentioned, it means it is there.

I believe this is called an inconsistent position.

Anyway, you did not refute my argument that if the demons truly wanted the possessed men to be dead, they could have killed them many times over, yet did not. If they wanted the men dead, why didn't they take action to see that it happened? If they can make a man run around naked and cut himself with stones surely they can make a man cut his wrists and bleed out?

:applause::applause::applause:

Excellent observation

 

[Don]

Fun debate but I think we have concluded it so I am off to other debates.

Translation: no one agreed with me, but I still think I'm right.

 

[quantumfaith]

Translation: no one agreed with me, but I still think I'm right.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[blessedwife318]

So since you are off to other debates will you return to your rapture debate?

 

[Sapper Woody]

This concludes this debate. I guess no one will know and this should not be a heated debate. Camel spiders? Are they toxic? Who won the fight?

Well, since the OP has moved on, I guess it's ok if I rabbit trail here to talk about camel spiders.



Camel spiders are not actually spiders. They are sopulgids, which are actual closer to scorpions than spiders. Another name for a camel spider I sun scorpion.



They do not bite, but rather have 4 mandibles that come together to make a form of a stinger. They are not poisonous, but they have so much bacteria on their mandibles that a sting left untreated is the same as a minor poison. They are not deadly, no matter the stories you hear of them killing dogs with a bite.



They can get huge. The ones we saw were about the size of my open hand.



There are stories of them chasing soldiers. This is actually because they want to stay in the relative cool of a shadow. They also do not scream.



They have 8 legs, but have appendages in from, similar to a scorpion's claws, but without pincers, giving the illusion of ten legs. These appendages act as an insect's antennae.



The scorpions killed the camel spiders easily.

 

[Rolfe]

Translation: no one agreed with me, but I still think I'm right.

...Again.

:thumbsup:

 

[padredurand]

Fun debate but I think we have concluded it so I am off to other debates.

You need to give yourself a rabbit. :tongue3: