Then man's will overrode God's will, correct?
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Why do Arminians have such a small view of God?
- Thread starter MennoSota
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So you limit God's Sovereignty in that you declare God is not allowed to give man a free will to choose things?
No, its just that God has a Determined will, that will always come to pass, an a permissive Will, but he still allows it to come to pass!
Not even God can do that, for ONLY he alone has absolute Sovereignty, its that being God thing!
So God did not give Adam a choice in the garden?
You don't know why. You guess with your own rationalizing, but you don't know why.
Provide God's word as your source material.
Nope, nope, yep.
Um...no. Armenia is a country; Armenians are citizens of that country. Thus, are we talking about a theology held by armenian citizens?
You're referring to arminians, so-called because of their alleged adherence to the writings of Jacob Arminius.
As already explained: Correct spelling is necessary to reduce confusion.
What does God's word say in 1 Samuel 8?
1 Samuel 8:5-22
[5]“Look,” they told him, “you are now old, and your sons are not like you. Give us a king to judge us like all the other nations have.”
[6]Samuel was displeased with their request and went to the lord for guidance.
[7]“Do everything they say to you,” the lord replied, “for they are rejecting me, not you. They don’t want me to be their king any longer.
[8]Ever since I brought them from Egypt they have continually abandoned me and followed other gods. And now they are giving you the same treatment.
[9]Do as they ask, but solemnly warn them about the way a king will reign over them.”
[10]So Samuel passed on the lord’s warning to the people who were asking him for a king.
[11]“This is how a king will reign over you,” Samuel said. “The king will draft your sons and assign them to his chariots and his charioteers, making them run before his chariots.
[12]Some will be generals and captains in his army, some will be forced to plow in his fields and harvest his crops, and some will make his weapons and chariot equipment.
[13]The king will take your daughters from you and force them to cook and bake and make perfumes for him.
[14]He will take away the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his own officials.
[15]He will take a tenth of your grain and your grape harvest and distribute it among his officers and attendants.
[16]He will take your male and female slaves and demand the finest of your cattle and donkeys for his own use.
[17]He will demand a tenth of your flocks, and you will be his slaves.
[18]When that day comes, you will beg for relief from this king you are demanding, but then the lord will not help you.”
[19]But the people refused to listen to Samuel’s warning. “Even so, we still want a king,” they said.
[20]“We want to be like the nations around us. Our king will judge us and lead us into battle.”
[21]So Samuel repeated to the lord what the people had said,
[22]and the lord replied, “Do as they say, and give them a king.” Then Samuel agreed and sent the people home.
Note that God was always in control and exerting His will regarding Israel having a King.
God's will is always done.
Your right. You think God is a passive observer who only intervenes in human affairs if he is needed or called upon.
I read God's word and see that God upholds the entire creation and actively ordains what is. He participates in everything and His ordained will is always accomplished...even when evil takes place.
Scripture please.
That's a stupid comment, steaver. God has never declared he gave man a free will that overrides His own will. If you have biblical text for your assertion then share it.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." (Ro 11:20)
Is is appropriate that Paul speaks of ignorance and conceits for not knowing why God blinded Israel in part. And that God blinded them for their own original decision of unbelief. They were not blinded from birth, they made their choices and now God was blinding them so they may be stuck in their own unbelief until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Then God will lift the blindness and they will return to their original state of making a choice for Christ.
So says you. You won't find that in any of my post. Deal with what i actually say.
You are stuck with Adam. Was Adam given a will to choose? Was Adam's choice to sin of his own free will or did God make him choose sin?
Your verse has nothing to do with Adam. Try again.
I am. What do you believe about the human will?So says you. You won't find that in any of my post. Deal with what i actually say.
If you believe it is free, then God must be passively sitting around and only able to act when a human calls him to act.
Does God say Adam had free will? Provide the text.
And btw, I know why God set Adam up to fail, and you should too.
Here is what was ordained by God for Adam's failure...
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." (Gen 3)
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." (Ro 5)
If Adam does not fail, Jesus Christ is not glorified. It's all about God teaching man good and evil and letting man make his choice for or against God.
Here is what was ordained by God for Adam's failure...
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." (Gen 3)
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." (Ro 5)
If Adam does not fail, Jesus Christ is not glorified. It's all about God teaching man good and evil and letting man make his choice for or against God.
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