Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election

[thatbrian]

I really love these tennis matches...but we are all sinners and we live in a sinful word... therefore we all sin. So are we to counter this by becoming Puritans? They are the most hypocritical creatures walking the face of the earth or are we to be the Catholic who admits to sin but has a way out, confess your sins but redo them then confess again

Both positions are totally absurd. So why even bother. Yes strive to be good and humble and responsible but temper that with the knowledge that sin is the one constant in the world.

Truth matters. Doctrine has consequences. Also, as far as I can tell, we aren't discussing sin, in particular.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Truth matters. Doctrine has consequences. Also, as far as I can tell, we aren't discussing sin, in particular.

We are always discussing sin ..sin perminats everything we do. It is our Antichrist, our enemy and friend, our politics, our reality. We don’t live without it. And how you deal with it dictates who you are... in this life and the next. Since you believe in the devil, then you have to apply character to that creation. So what do you think, is that creature beautiful, is he total evil, does he work in partnership with God, with man or is he your total enemy? Is he totally morbid or does he laugh?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And if you want more truth, here it is....That if I believe in a Deity then I would thank him and bless Him for the liberty of choice, For without that liberty of choice,we would be dancing around as puppets on strings.

What Is Sin? The Essence and Root of All Sinning

 

[utilyan]

I really love these tennis matches...but we are all sinners and we live in a sinful word... therefore we all sin. So are we to counter this by becoming Puritans? They are the most hypocritical creatures walking the face of the earth or are we to be the Catholic who admits to sin but has a way out, confess your sins but redo them then confess again

Both positions are totally absurd. So why even bother. Yes strive to be good and humble and responsible but temper that with the knowledge that sin is the one constant in the world.

Forgive Yourself, 77 TIMES 7. And keep moving forward! :::Insert Rocky Motivational:::


This statement itself is a sin based on lack of faith, and should be your primary target in your practice>>>"that sin is the one constant in the world." Our giving evil too much credit is part of our problem.

Who do we have for a teacher, God? are we to suppose he just mediocre at what he does? Does a great teacher just churn out students with "F's" who learn nothing?

Matthew 11

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Jesus says learn from him, that it is EASY. The #1 problem we have is we call him a LIAR. We already have OUR expectation.

Trust and Faith is same thing. When Jesus says "oh hey this is easy, I can teach you to do this, look I am a gentle person."

Jesus is joking right? Jesus is a Liar right? Jesus doesn't know that SIN is the one constant in the world!

I got to learn to trust Jesus.

No one says they expect NOT SINNING to be MOST FUN They ever had. We got sins we need to beat down in the roots. False expectations, false beliefs, false assumptions.


Not sinning is the most fun you will ever have.

 

[Rhetorician]

Your problem is you have no idea of what God's plan is. You assume you know but you refuse to admit that God's will is that all men be saved. Not just some particular Calvinist. You deny what scripture actually says in favor of the sayings of Calvinist of the past. You hold the ideas of men as truth instead of scripture.

This certainly isn't the Idea of God. God making all decisions for man. While men just mindlessly do and become what ever God directs, Even the sin men commit was directed by God. Leaving men innocent pawns directed by a force of God to do them. Your idea of sovereignty makes God in to a liar making Him more like Satan that Satan himself. Not to mention this idea of man is completely non biblical.
No where in scripture is there ever even one Gentile shown to be elect.
No where in scripture is God ever described as Sovereign. He is all mighty
MB
MB

MB,

It seems God has a problem? If he wants all men to be saved, and they are not; then he is a wimpy no power God.

If He wants all men to be saved, and He cannot "will it so," then poor God whatever must he do?

rd

 

[utilyan]

MB,

It seems God has a problem? If he wants all men to be saved, and they are not; then he is a wimpy no power God.

If He wants all men to be saved, and He cannot "will it so," then poor God whatever must he do?

rd

Wimpy by who's standard? God can hand over all his power to you, and still win.



The #1 sin, the one thing GOD would never want to happen, is for us to torture and kill his only son.

But he let us walk all over him.

Jesus could have a legion of angels stop the whole thing. Forgiving sins God could wink his eye and all sins of the world are gone he doesn't need to kill his son, he can do anything he wants. God is making a clear statement to humanity by his act.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Forgive Yourself, 77 TIMES 7. And keep moving forward! :::Insert Rocky Motivational:::


This statement itself is a sin based on lack of faith, and should be your primary target in your practice>>>"that sin is the one constant in the world." Our giving evil too much credit is part of our problem.

Who do we have for a teacher, God? are we to suppose he just mediocre at what he does? Does a great teacher just churn out students with "F's" who learn nothing?

Matthew 11

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Jesus says learn from him, that it is EASY. The #1 problem we have is we call him a LIAR. We already have OUR expectation.

Trust and Faith is same thing. When Jesus says "oh hey this is easy, I can teach you to do this, look I am a gentle person."

Jesus is joking right? Jesus is a Liar right? Jesus doesn't know that SIN is the one constant in the world!

I got to learn to trust Jesus.

No one says they expect NOT SINNING to be MOST FUN They ever had. We got sins we need to beat down in the roots. False expectations, false beliefs, false assumptions.


Not sinning is the most fun you will ever have.

Yea but I have tons of fun by sinning

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We are always discussing sin ..sin perminats everything we do. It is our Antichrist, our enemy and friend, our politics, our reality. We don’t live without it. And how you deal with it dictates who you are... in this life and the next. Since you believe in the devil, then you have to apply character to that creation. So what do you think, is that creature beautiful, is he total evil, does he work in partnership with God, with man or is he your total enemy? Is he totally morbid or does he laugh?

That is right he laughs! To contemplate the world and see how redicuous It is is hilarious and the development knows it.

 

[thatbrian]

MB,

It seems God has a problem? If he wants all men to be saved, and they are not; then he is a wimpy no power God.

If He wants all men to be saved, and He cannot "will it so," then poor God whatever must he do?

rd

Yes. That is a problem. The impotent god of Arminius. . .

 

[utilyan]

Yea but I have tons of fun by sinning

Every sin we commit has a fear connected to it, a mistrust of God. Someone who has a complete trust in God is always calm, relaxed, and fearless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Every sin we commit has a fear connected to it, a mistrust of God. Someone who has a complete trust in God is always calm, relaxed, and fearless.

Yes because there is a blessed assurance (as the song goes) Jesus is mine.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes. That is a problem. The impotent god of Arminius. . .

Arminius, being human, had his questions & concerns about his operating salvation theology. I don't criticize the guy unless pushed to by people who are solid Arminians.....then I will give it to them. But you have to realize that conversation about this stuff, even disagreements serves to vent, to clarify & to solidify held positions.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes. That is a problem. The impotent god of Arminius. . .

Surely Arminius did not think that his "Understanding of God" is impotent. See, now you are veering into picking a fight, not discussion. Like could you not have phrased it differently?

 

[robycop3]

Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in nature. He may rule the fish in the ocean and the waves of the sea. . . Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in governments. They allow Him to rule over the outcome of wars, the location of borders, and even US election results! However, when it comes to the clay that He has formed into men, He is bound by their actions and "free will". He must always and only act in the spaces that men's will leave open for Him to act in.

Men hate the idea of God's sovereignty in election because they hate the idea of God's sovereignty over them.

Do you allow for God's sovereignty except over your will? Is that the line in the sand that the King of Kings must not cross?

Are you serious? GOD CAN DO ANYTHING!

He caused the Jews to have a sovereign nation again, despite the opposition of most of the world. Same for their making Jerusalem their capital again. Many still oppose that, but it happened,& will continue to be in force.

 

[Rhetorician]

Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in nature. He may rule the fish in the ocean and the waves of the sea. . . Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in governments. They allow Him to rule over the outcome of wars, the location of borders, and even US election results! However, when it comes to the clay that He has formed into men, He is bound by their actions and "free will". He must always and only act in the spaces that men's will leave open for Him to act in.

Men hate the idea of God's sovereignty in election because they hate the idea of God's sovereignty over them.

Do you allow for God's sovereignty except over your will? Is that the line in the sand that the King of Kings must not cross?

To all who have an ear!!

The two major issues with the T-U-L-I-P that I have encountered over the years since my embrace of Particular Redemption has been the absolute sovereignty of God over all His creation AND the absolute Depravity of Man.

What the Wesleyan / Arminian (sp?) system will not allow is that men are depraved and spiritually dead in all of their faculties including their will. They would have us think we are "sovereign sinners" who has Christ over in the corner crying, "Father I died for all of them, won't someone exercise their free will and come and choose me??!!""

This does not mean that they cannot make "horizontal decisions" about whom to marry or what to become as a vocation. What is does mean theologically is that they cannot make one move towards God on their own left to their own devices in their natural state. Without first God, by His Holy Spirit, bringing the Gospel of Christ to them, giving them faith, giving them repentance, and resurrecting them and showing them their lostness and the Glory of Christ's holiness then bringing them to him. They are even aided by the HS to even reach out their hand and take what God has offered them by faith.

God is sovereign over all and is much more gracious than we know. And we are much more sinful than we know and have a very small idea of how much grace we need and the damnation we deserve. Thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift.

rd

 

[utilyan]

To all who have an ear!!

The two major issues with the T-U-L-I-P that I have encountered over the years since my embrace of Particular Redemption has been the absolute sovereignty of God over all His creation AND the absolute Depravity of Man.

What the Wesleyan / Arminian (sp?) system will not allow is that men are depraved and spiritually dead in all of their faculties including their will. They would have us think we are "sovereign sinners" who has Christ over in the corner crying, "Father I died for all of them, won't someone exercise their free will and come and choose me??!!""

This does not mean that they cannot make "horizontal decisions" about whom to marry or what to become as a vocation. What is does mean theologically is that they cannot make one move towards God on their own left to their own devices in their natural state. Without first God, by His Holy Spirit, bringing the Gospel of Christ to them, giving them faith, giving them repentance, and resurrecting them and showing them their lostness and the Glory of Christ's holiness then bringing them to him. They are even aided by the HS to even reach out their hand and take what God has offered them by faith.

God is sovereign over all and is much more gracious than we know. And we are much more sinful than we know and have a very small idea of how much grace we need and the damnation we deserve. Thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift.

rd

"And we are much more sinful than we know and have a very small idea of how much grace we need and the damnation we deserve."

Damnation is actively sinning against God. I don't see how anyone deserves to sin again God.

Convince me you DESERVE to spit in God's face everyday, hell does worst.


If someone can't move towards God that is not a natural state, that is unatural, abomination even.

If all of man is corrupted to where it has no capacity to do anything for God, then that man is destroyed completely and is as equal to murder or any other sin. There is nothing there to save. God is not going to save murder.

Something good has to be there to be saved. If there was nothing good then the whole thing is part of the damning force.

I think there are folks in this thread who are throwing away the baby with the bathwater. Alot of it is a flawed view humility that's been twisted.

It all sounds great on paper, but heavily flawed.

 

[thatbrian]

we are much more sinful than we know and have a very small idea of how much grace we need and the damnation we deserve. Thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift.

If we had the smallest clue of God's holiness and man's sinfulness, we would all immediately become "five-point Calvinists".

 

[utilyan]

If we had the smallest clue of God's holiness and man's sinfulness, we would all immediately become "five-point Calvinists".

When they get the whole picture they become Christians instead.

 

[Yeshua1]

When they get the whole picture they become Christians instead.

What does God require in order to be a Christian?

 

[Rhetorician]

What does God require in order to be a Christian?

In Acts 20 does the text not say, "repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ"?

rd