Both enabled to us by the Holy Spirit, not produced in and by ourselves!
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Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election
- Thread starter thatbrian
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No one claims it is
Jesus says YOU ARE THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
Luke 11
13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
ANSWER CHRIST^^^^^
JUST how much more?
Calvinist says "NEVER and NONE AT ALL"
What happens when a reprobate asks for God's help?
And the sad part is this Pharisaical ELITE who CAN ASK on behalf of the reprobates ONLY CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES, They tie up the burdens on reprobates and don't even lift a finger for them.
Unless God regenerates us (TULEP) we cannot repent or have faith!!
"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name"
Your not regenerated if you still have sins to be washed away.
Titus 3
5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Washing of Regeneration is Baptism.
When Jesus stands in front of people the first thing he says to them is REPENT!
Someone forgot to give him the memo: He should have first told them REGENERATE!
Your not regenerated if you still have sins to be washed away.
Titus 3
5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Washing of Regeneration is Baptism.
When Jesus stands in front of people the first thing he says to them is REPENT!
Someone forgot to give him the memo: He should have first told them REGENERATE!
So you have to be baptized every time you sin?
You are only born again once.
From my understanding what is trying to be said is that initial regeneration needs to occur before you even have the capacity to repent and seek forgiveness.
We of course don't agree with the order of events.
Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Regeneration is an act of forgiveness and healing.
The idea someone starts regenerated and saved, then they can go hear the gospel then repent......
This particular calvinist is covering his bases. I want to steal his quote :" Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? "
“If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. But you will tell me that I ought to preach it only to those who repent of their sins. Very well; but since true repentance of sin is the work of the Spirit, any man who has repentance is most certainly saved, because evangelical repentance never can exist in an unrenewed soul. Where there is repentance there is faith already, for they never can be separated. So, then, I am only to preach faith to those who have it. Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners.”
– C.H. Spurgeon
“Lord, hasten to bring in all Thine elect—and then elect some more.” --C.H. Spurgeon.
(if every Calvinist had that attitude, it wouldn't be such a big deal)
But the verse you quoted as proof says "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins."
So, according to that, every time you sin you should be baptized to wash away that sin.
The point I'm trying to make is there is a regeneration and renewing occurring during that washing away of sins.
Titus 3
5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
1 peter 3
21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Does this line mean that in baptism we are asking for that regeneration of good conscience?
I think if the renewal and regeneration was happening prior the only virtue that would need to be expressed is gratitude since its all over and done with.
Yes, during the washing away of sins by baptism.
Either that or you have misunderstood the verse.
I am still trying to figure out who it is that hates God's sovereignty in election. Unless some specific people can be named we can know the title of the op to be a Calvinist lie.
Rev, I purposely came to this forum with the very same question!
After 7 pages who in particular here (or name an author from anywhere) who in fact hate the sovereignty of God?
HankD
No one. It is a flat out lie. It needs to be dealt with but since a cagey calvinist posted it it will likely not be dealt with. These days misrepresentaitons of positions of those who are not calvinists to white bashing is seemingly allowed on this board.
So, according to you nobody anywhere on earth hates the sovereignty of God in election? How do you know that?
It is a question. "Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election?"
So what bothers you is not the question but that the question was asked by a Calvinist?
If you have a problem with a post report it. But complaining about it in the open forum while refusing to report it seems rather more like a childish tantrum than a legitimate concern.
Now, let's get out of the kindergarten sandbox and act like adults. The OP has asked a question which assumes that somebody, somewhere, hates the Sovereignty of God in election. If you don't like the question challenge the OP to post evidence that somebody, somewhere hates the Sovereignty of God in election and discuss that persons quote or position statement. It is time we all started acting like adults.
It seems to me the OP is displaying some, if not all, of the characteristics of "Cage-Stage" Calvinism. The best way to counter that is to challenge his presuppositions, not whine and snivel about the Baptist Board allowing opinions that differ from your own.
If I, as an Administrator, only allowed posts that agree with me, I would be the only one posting, because I disagree with everybody on the forum about something.
The President of the first Seminary I attended used to say, "If two people agree on everything only one of them is thinking for himself." I agree.
[Edited to add: In case anyone is unfamiliar with the term "Cage-stage Calvinism" here is a good article by the late R. C. Sproul: Cage-Stage Calvinism: What Is It and What Causes It?]
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I believe "hate" is the wrong word.
This is my own opinion and it can of course be rejected (and no doubt will) but from a C point of view the question should be "why do men misunderstand God's Sovereignty in election"
Actually the answer to the original question
"why do men hate God's Sovereignty in election"?
Perhaps because The feeling is mutual? Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated.
HankD
This is my own opinion and it can of course be rejected (and no doubt will) but from a C point of view the question should be "why do men misunderstand God's Sovereignty in election"
Actually the answer to the original question
"why do men hate God's Sovereignty in election"?
Perhaps because The feeling is mutual? Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated.
HankD
Sinners will never ask for Grace of God apart from the Holy Spirit working on them!
You either didn't read the OP, or you are having a problem understanding it. I can help with the latter.
Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:30 AM Pacific.
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:30 AM Pacific.
I did read the O/P. I re-read it. You used the generic term "men" as a set of haters of God's sovereignty.
Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election
I repeat who in particular of this set of sovereignty haters of God in election can you ID of whom we would know because using the generic term "men" seems to indicate that all men hate the sovereignty of God.
I am of this set "men". I am also elect, however I do not hate the sovereignty of God which is causing my inquiry.
Without the particular ID of an element of the generic set of men (or perhaps there is a subset within the set of "men") it would seem to mean your proposition is ill defined.
Indeed I am having a problem understanding the O/P but as I indicated above it seems justified.
Please advise.
Thanks
HankD
I can see the problem. Can you?
Maybe not.
The OP clearly stated that men don't object to the sovereignty of God in many things, did it not?
The OP also make the distinction between God's sovereignty and God's sovereignty in election, did it not?
Not many mind God's sovereignty until it gets too close to home, as is the case in election, which, if you haven't been around BB for long, you can see people foaming at the mouth over. It's a hated doctrine. Five minutes on this forum and a school-aged child could see that.
Not God's sovereignty, Hank. God's sovereignty in election.
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