Why do people get saved in spite of the modern gospel?

[evangelist6589]

Was listening to the WOTM radio and they like usual played a clip from brother Paul Washer and Paul was ripping on the modern gospel message and said that a large number of people have made a decision for Christ but their life never changed and they do not have Jesus. Yes some get saved but it's all in spite of the modern gospel message. So why do they get saved? I have my opinion and that is that God elects people to salvation and does so in spite of the modern gospel. What do you say?

 

[Revmitchell]

First of all the criticism of the so called "modern gospel message" is used so broad as to condemn anyone and everyone who shares the gospel today. There are so many things wrong with that I will not begin the list. People get saved today just as people have always gotten saved. I suppose of one wants to tie it to a poor definition of election they can, but the bottom line is God can and does reach into the hearts of people and convicts them after having heard the word.

I would argue that if there is a poor gospel presentation being given and yet people are getting saved anyway while others may not be, election has nothing to do with that. One cannot respond correctly to something that is presented incorrectly regardless of election. Romans 10:17 is still valid regardless if we get the gospel presentation right or wrong.

Given Washer's view of Soteriology I am wondering why he is even worried about this issue. It seems like a waste of a Calvinists efforts given their view of election and irresistible (effectual) grace.

 

[annsni]

It's the same reason anyone gets saved: The grace of God and His call on their lives. I was just 8 when I led my first person to the Lord and I can assure you that what I said wasn't much better than the weakest preacher.

 

[JamesL]

....a large number of people have made a decision for Christ but their life never changed and they do not have Jesus.....

That's why people DON'T get saved - they're running around making "decisions" for Jesus, insteading of fixing their hope on Him.

And that's no different in "today's" gospel as it was in Calvin's gospel, Finney's gospel, Spurgeon's gospel, Moody's gospel...you name it. These philosophers posing as theologians, making everything about the power of choice and a man's decisions

 

[Yeshua1]

Was listening to the WOTM radio and they like usual played a clip from brother Paul Washer and Paul was ripping on the modern gospel message and said that a large number of people have made a decision for Christ but their life never changed and they do not have Jesus. Yes some get saved but it's all in spite of the modern gospel message. So why do they get saved? I have my opinion and that is that God elects people to salvation and does so in spite of the modern gospel. What do you say?

Think that the modern Gospel is same as the One in the Bible IF it preaches the good news message! One does not have to hold with and agree with Lordship salvation order to preach the true gospel!

 

[InTheLight]

So why do they get saved? I have my opinion and that is that God elects people to salvation and does so in spite of the modern gospel. What do you say?

According to your beliefs, because God drags them to salvation and compels them to believe. If that is true, the modern gospel works just as well as WOTM. And who needs preachers?

 

[evangelist6589]

That's why people DON'T get saved - they're running around making "decisions" for Jesus, insteading of fixing their hope on Him.

And that's no different in "today's" gospel as it was in Calvin's gospel, Finney's gospel, Spurgeon's gospel, Moody's gospel...you name it. These philosophers posing as theologians, making everything about the power of choice and a man's decisions

Why would you put Finney and Calvin and Moody in the same sentence? Finney was a heretic!

 

[JamesL]

Why would you put Finney and Calvin and Moody in the same sentence? Finney was a heretic!

They all taught an outward "response" to the gospel as necessary for eternal life, which is unbiblical.

No matter which camp someone is in, scripture teaches we are justified by grace only, and through faith only.

Adding human works into the equation is heretical, even if someone is trying to fly the banner of Monergism

 

[Don]

Is the root of the OP question basically a confusion regarding "majoring on the minors and minoring on the majors"?

 

[evangelist6589]

Is the root of the OP question basically a confusion regarding "majoring on the minors and minoring on the majors"?

Only in your head.

 

[evangelist6589]

It's the same reason anyone gets saved: The grace of God and His call on their lives. I was just 8 when I led my first person to the Lord and I can assure you that what I said wasn't much better than the weakest preacher.

Well said

 

[evangelist6589]

According to your beliefs, because God drags them to salvation and compels them to believe. If that is true, the modern gospel works just as well as WOTM. And who needs preachers?

Wait a minute wait a minute. I am not preaching hyper-Calvinism. Do you know the difference between the two?

 

[InTheLight]

Wait a minute wait a minute. I am not preaching hyper-Calvinism. Do you know the difference between the two?

Yes. Let me edit my previous post to take out the hyper-Calvinist portion.

According to your beliefs, because God drags them to salvation and compels them to believe. If that is true, the modern gospel works just as well as WOTM.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

That's why people DON'T get saved - they're running around making "decisions" for Jesus, insteading of fixing their hope on Him.

And that's no different in "today's" gospel as it was in Calvin's gospel, Finney's gospel, Spurgeon's gospel, Moody's gospel...you name it. These philosophers posing as theologians, making everything about the power of choice and a man's decisions

If it was "Spurgeon's gospel" or Moody's gospel", that would be correct. However, it seems clear that Spurgeon was used by God to bring many to Himself. I also recall a story about Moody, in which a mocker had pointed to a drunk in the gutter and said, "That man was at your meeting the other night. Your gospel didn't do much for him!" Moody responded something like, "If it was MY gospel, that's no surprise, but if he'd been saved thru God's Gospel, he would not be where he is."

 

[tyndale1946]

They all taught an outward "response" to the gospel as necessary for eternal life, which is unbiblical.

No matter which camp someone is in, scripture teaches we are justified by grace only, and through faith only.

Adding human works into the equation is heretical, even if someone is trying to fly the banner of Monergism

And I agree and there is a scripture that even says so and here it is... Enough said... Brother Glen

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. Let me edit my previous post to take out the hyper-Calvinist portion.

According to your beliefs, because God drags them to salvation and compels them to believe. If that is true, the modern gospel works just as well as WOTM.

Would say that instead the Holy Spirit moves upon them to be enabled to respond by faith to jesus and get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

If it was "Spurgeon's gospel" or Moody's gospel", that would be correct. However, it seems clear that Spurgeon was used by God to bring many to Himself. I also recall a story about Moody, in which a mocker had pointed to a drunk in the gutter and said, "That man was at your meeting the other night. Your gospel didn't do much for him!" Moody responded something like, "If it was MY gospel, that's no surprise, but if he'd been saved thru God's Gospel, he would not be where he is."

Think there was a case when Spurgeon and a famous London Atheist were debating the Gospel, and Spurgeon wanted to have both of therm bring forth those who have been made better by their 'religions< and Spurgeon had 50 to bring forth, and the other man had zero!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Yes some get saved but it's all in spite of the modern gospel message. So why do they get saved?

Because salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit upon a person willing to turn to God. People come to faith in Christ with only a fragmentary understanding of the gospel all of the time.

Salvation is a process and the process often begins in very small ways and gradually grows enormously, like the mustard seed in the teaching of Jesus.

A number of years ago, I was reading a biography of Keith Green (a singer/performer/composer in Christian circles back in the 1970s and 80s) written by his widow, Melody Green, and was startled to discover that Green trusted Jesus with his life before he truly understood that Jesus was divine. Shortly after that initial step of faith, he came to realize that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. So when did he "get saved?" When he first placed his faith in Christ and his life began to transform. Part of the transformation process was getting a clearer understanding of the gospel.

That really shouldn't be a surprise since all of us who are truly disciples of Jesus are gaining a clear understanding and mastery of the gospel each day, as we live in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Because salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit upon a person willing to turn to God. People come to faith in Christ with only a fragmentary understanding of the gospel all of the time.

Salvation is a process and the process often begins in very small ways and gradually grows enormously, like the mustard seed in the teaching of Jesus.

A number of years ago, I was reading a biography of Keith Green (a singer/performer/composer in Christian circles back in the 1970s and 80s) written by his widow, Melody Green, and was startled to discover that Green trusted Jesus with his life before he truly understood that Jesus was divine. Shortly after that initial step of faith, he came to realize that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. So when did he "get saved?" When he first placed his faith in Christ and his life began to transform. Part of the transformation process was getting a clearer understanding of the gospel.

That really shouldn't be a surprise since all of us who are truly disciples of Jesus are gaining a clear understanding and mastery of the gospel each day, as we live in the Kingdom of God.

The Holy Spirit will and does take the bible to convict and witness and save lost sinners, even while those preaching are not using way of the Master, not especially reformed...
A am a calvinistic Baptist, but the Spirit can and does getsinners saved despite our "methods"

 

[Darrell C]

Was listening to the WOTM radio and they like usual played a clip from brother Paul Washer and Paul was ripping on the modern gospel message and said that a large number of people have made a decision for Christ but their life never changed and they do not have Jesus. Yes some get saved but it's all in spite of the modern gospel message. So why do they get saved? I have my opinion and that is that God elects people to salvation and does so in spite of the modern gospel. What do you say?

I think that most decry "the modern Gospel" and in reality its more an exclusionary tactic designed to set one group apart and above all others. "Our group teaches the correct Gospel."

The simple truth is that the Gospel is simple, man is a sinner out of relationship with God and headed to hell."

How hard is that?

The "modern Gospel" could refer to just about any heresy taught by any group out there, and despite all that, God still saves people in these groups.

Charges about those "whose lives have never changed" is really irrelevant, because it assumes there is a group out there where everyone in that fellowship is saved, and their lives are changed. Another basic truth is that in any congregation there is a variety of believers all at differing stages of growth, and perhaps we should also include...varying stages of conviction. An example might be a man whose wife drags him to Church (and praise God for our godly women!), who, over the course of years, has the objections that keep him from submitting to the Truth slowly dismantled.

I think probably the problem most have in identifying change in people's lives is an ignorance of what their lives were, or are...like in the first place. How many who look down their noses at people they "don't see a change in the lives of" actually know what their lives are like to begin with?

Let's just stick with conveying the Gospel, and let God save them and change their lives as Scripture teaches He will do, lol.


God bless.