Why Do People Go ro Church

[Darrell C]

Hello W, just a few comments on your post, and just to let you know, I am not sure how much time I will be able to devote to the Forum right now, as work is crazy right now. But, I hope that the comments might allow you to see a perspective you have not previously given consideration.

Bro. EW&F---

In response to your questions you asked me in your post #36, as a mortal human, there is no possible way that I can determine what another person's spiritual condition is.

This would be the first thing I would disagree with:


Galatians 6:1

King James Version (KJV)

6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.


Not only should we have the ability to discern the condition of our brothers and sisters, we should, as commanded here...do so.

I could possibly make an educated guess, but that still would only be a guess. More than likely the 11 apostles probably assumed that, prior to his betraying Christ, Judas Iscariot had about as good a spiritual relationship with Christ as they themselves did.

The truth is that not one of the disciples had a "spiritual relationship" with Christ. At this time they were not yet indwelt by the Comforter and were unaware of Christ's Ministry towards Eternal Salvation. Evidence that this is true is, with just a few verses (I will try not to overload this response, lol), can be seen here:


Matthew 16:21-23

King James Version (KJV)

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Peter was in direct opposition to the Gospel of Christ, which Christ presents to the disciples here. Further evidence would be seen in Peter taking up the sword in the Garden to prevent Christ from fulfilling His Father's will, and denying He knew Christ at all when He was taken. We see in Acts 1 that not one of the disciples had been Baptized with the Spirit, and it was not until that takes place that Peter begins to fulfill the Great Commission.

Going back to their spiritual condition, all of them, including Judas...were still lacking the Reconciliation of the Cross. In other words, they were still spiritually dead.

I don't know of any Bible verse that states that another moral human can without a doubt know what another person's real spiritual relationship with Jesus is.

1 John is a good place to start.

All I said is that I'm not 100% positive that what was written in Hebrews 10:25 should not in context be carried on through the subsequent verses of that chapter.

This goes without saying. And it is the context of the Book as a whole that most miss, primarily because they become distracted by certain passages that are highlighted by most.

In context, this...


Hebrews 10:25

King James Version (KJV)

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


...is not the Writer calling Jews to faithful Church Attendance, but a call to embrace Christ in truth and to forsake the First Covenant.

Consider:


Hebrews 10:25-29

King James Version (KJV)

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


The willful sin in view is defined by the Writer, and we must notice that the contrast is not between faithful church-goers and unfaithful, but between those whose loyalties are divided between the First and the New Covenant:


27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:


Here those that rejected God's will under the First Covenant (the Covenant of Law, called "Moses' Law here) are contrasted with those who reject the New Covenant:


29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


What is rejected here is Christ, Whose sacrifice is rejected and considered unholy...and the Ministry of the Comforter (this is what doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace refers to).

Those who reject the New Covenant will suffer greater punishment than those who rejected the First Covenant.

And just to point out that this contrast is in view, consider also...


Hebrews 10:16-20

King James Version (KJV)

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


All throughout the Book of Hebrews we see the Two Covenants contrasted.

Most conservative Evangelical Bible scholars have had difficulty in explaining why some of the chapter--and even some of the verse numbering were placed where they were.

There are a few places where Chapter Division is inconvenient and it throws the Student off. None worse than the division between Chapters 5 and 6. Another would be 9 and 10. But the verses themselves are divinely arranged, and we should be able to recognize the insertion of chapter and verse does not change that.

Keeping in mind that the original author of the writing we call the "Book" of Hebrews had neither chapter or verse designations (both of which were added approximately 10 centuries after the canon of God's written Word ceased).

It really does not affect the discerning Student, and it is convenient for a number of reasons, such as memorization and looking up verses, as well as it's role in being keyed to concordances.

My use of the expression "Lone Ranger Christian" wasn't intended to be an indictment against any particular Christian. It's simply an expression I've heard many times in conversations with other fellow Christians.

Through circumstances and life experiences there are just going to be some Christians who do not do well in social settings. While I myself see fellowship in a local ministry important, I can also say that I have done quite a bit of church-hopping myself, for a number of reasons, so I can understand someone having a problem with corporate worship.

However, I do not feel that those who do should speak evil of corporate worship nor actively engage in discouraging others from it. In other words, if one has an issue with fellowshipping in that type of setting...they should keep that between themselves and God.

I'm guessing that this expression probably got its start when somebody used it to describe how some Christians view the necessity of personally and physically fellowshipping with other Christians within the context of a local church with a certain degree of disdain.

When it comes to using he word "necessity," the truth is that it is not necessary to be saved or have a relationship with a local Body, though it is useful to most. If we deem it "necessary" then we have to write off those who are not able to attend a local fellowship for any number of reasons, such as physical impairment due to age or sickness.

And in accordance to the command to "restore" those whose spiritual conditions are felt in peril, this would require the Church leaving the corporate fellowship hall and...

...going to them.

Right?

"Church Attendance" is, in my own view, especially important to new believers. Unfortunately, because many view their attendance as the only means of growth, many stay "new" for many years. Many will have as a spiritual diet only that which is fed to them by their Pastors and Sunday School teachers. It is what one does outside of corporate worship/fellowship that makes a difference in regards to growth.

But we trust God will train up His children in the way they should go. The rate of growth will vary among believers just as maturity varies among children.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

While they may possibly have some reasons for not wishing to have face-to-face personal fellowship with other Christians in the context of a local church, God still commands that this kind of fellowship take place on a regular basis.

It is a Biblical pattern, there is no question, but it is just my opinion that using Hebrews 10:25 to make that point is in error.

Let me ask you this: when is the last time you fellowshipped with believers that really wanted to get into a Theological Discussion? It is a little discouraging to me that seldom, at church functions...does anyone talk about the Lord and the Bible.

The general pattern one sees in the NT was that most all Christian fellowship in those days was done in the context of a local church.

Agreed. However, the Church was certainly not secluded to fellowship in the Church. If that were true...there would not have been the converts there were.

Most all of Paul's NT epistles were written to either a particular local church, or, in some cases, a group of local churches in a given region.

The same concept is noted in Revelation 1-3 where the Apostle John wrote to seven local churches in western "Asia Minor" [modern-day Turkey].

And in general there is rebuke for most of the Churches.

There is a danger with complacency when our Christianity becomes secluded to fellowship with our local Body.

In the US (& it's probably true elsewhere), some people have the tendency to live out their Christian lives with an almost total disregard to the institute that God not only established, but also the very same institution for whom Christ died--the local, visible NT church.

This is very true. There has been a movement which has sought to discourage fellowship, and I am against this entirely. However, when it comes to Hebrews, several passages are used out of context to teach something that is not found in the text. To teach that not going to Church is the willful sin in view is just one of them, and it is an abuse that most preachers engage in.

The reason(s) why some people do this can vary widely, but nonetheless, IMHO, that's still a clear violation of Hebrews 10:25.

It is only in the sense of the unregenerate who have rejected Christ in favor of the First Covenant, that is the truth in the historical context, and can be practically applied to any rejection of Christ today, and not see the substitute as exclusively the Covenant of Law being the preferred method of worship.

Anything that replaces God's will as found in the Word of God applies.

A modern parallel would be the Legalist who still thinks God is accepting obedience to the Law as a means of relationship.

I've heard some folks say that they can live out their Christian lives and testimonies just as well as those who want to fellowship within the context of a visible local church. My response to them is that they must be much closer to the Lord than I usually find myself to be because if I were to miss a couple weeks of fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ within the context of the local church to which I belong, there's no telling how little I'd progress in my standing with God,

While I understand that fully I would suggest that you are on the right track for enlarging your borders in regards to spiritual growth, namely...Doctrinal Discussion.

When we test our beliefs with our brothers and sisters we are challenged in the views we have, those views sometimes being confirmed, sometimes being denied...by the very Word of God. We can accelerate our understanding simply by being in the Word of God, and that is one thing that is going to happen if you spend any amount of time debating Theology.

The flip side is a simple diet received only while in Church. This is common in the Body of Christ, and it shows.

knowing full well that I would be in open violation of what God in His Word--namely Hebrews 10:25--has commanded me to do.

Sorry, but there is no way you can possibly violate Hebrews 10:25, for the simple fact that you were never in Covenant with God through the First Covenant as those Hebrews which the Writer addressed were.

And that is something we have to consider: these were people who were legitimately in relationship with God coming to grips with the Religion they had been born in bred into being made obsolete.

That was a tough pill to swallow for many of them.

But consider this rebuke from the Writer:


Hebrews 5:8-12

King James Version (KJV)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


The First Principles of the Oracles (Word) of God in view here are those truths found in the Old Testament/Covenant. Those truths were foundational, and the exhortation is to progress from them:


Hebrews 6

King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


There were Hebrews who were still clinging to what they knew of the coming Christ (which in large part was erroneous on the part of Israel) instead of embracing what had been revealed in Christ Himself.

Those foundational principles are not to be laid again as commanded by the Writer (and ultimately the Holy Ghost) which is exactly what we see our legalistic brothers and sisters doing today.

IOW, I'd be fearful of falling into the hands of the Living God.

Not a possibility for you if you are a born again believer. This applies only to those who have rejected the Ministry of the Comforter (who convicts unbelievers of sin, righteousness, and judgment) which ultimately is a rejection of Christ.

For the believer, we know...


John 10:27-29

King James Version (KJV)

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


The writer is not warning believers...but unbelievers.

Any of you who've experienced the chastisement of God for blatantly violating one of His direct NT commands would most likely tell you the very same thing as well.

Agreed, but we should not discount the Promises of God concerning Eternal Salvation. And this is why we have to understand the "spiritual condition" of the disciples before this...


Hebrews 9:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.


It was not until Christ died, rose again, returned to Heaven, and sent the Spirit of Promise (the Comforter)...that Eternal Redemption became available for man.

Only the Blood (Death, Sacrifice) of Christ can restore relationship with God on an Eternal basis.


God bless.

 

[tyndale1946]

Some of the most contensious and sinful people i know are regular church goers....and some are in leadership positions. In church ive come face to face with pedophiles, drug pushers, con artist's, thiefs,hypocrates, blah blah blah....and most are unrepentent. There is an old song and much bad blood between me and some of these characters that wont wash....not when ive seen the damage done and continues to be done.

Even so i am prepared to go to church.....see at this point I dont give a fig about these cretins, i care about my relationship with Christ and how i can pick up the pieces of the broken (by bad religion and the fakes who use religion to their worldly advantage).

I have not walked in your shoes and do not claim to understand what you have been through... No brother or sister can understand the cross that each of us has had to bear in our lives in service to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... The one thing that stands out in your post to me is this... I care about my relationship with Christ!... Attend church on that premise and gravitate to those also that are seeking such and are broken. In my case, daily I've have to step out of my way and surrender to the Lord. I find when I do that I allow the Lord to work in whatever circumstances I find myself in... You know you are my Brother in the Lord!... Brother Glen:godisgood:

 

[OldRegular]

Sometimes I really wonder why people bother. Oh i can understand couples with kids...they think they have to for the children (wifey and I did that) , we thought it the rightthing to do. But when they grew up and could do their own thing, we ceased going. I have also seen the old....they think they need to get right, kinda like paying up on an insurance policy. But I see lots of hypocrisy also...people who are Sunday Christians, and Monday they put Joe Stalin to shame.

So what is it...is it an obedience thing.....my mothers church made it an obligation and one threatning damnation if you didnt go! Or is it a fellowship thing... and there i see a rush for the door...very little, sit and talk. So im stumped....please help me to understand.

Scripture tells us:

Matthew 18:20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 10:19-25
19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21. And having an high priest over the house of God;
22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[OldRegular]

And there you would be wrong. Its why i struggle so hard with it. Otherwise I would merely just blow it off.

Brother, I know how you feel.

I posted Scripture earlier in response to the OP and I believe that Scripture is appropriate. That being said there are many reasons why people don't go to a congregational ??worship?? service but I will not bore you with a list. Perhaps the following from a web site for the congregation where i have membership helps:

WHAT ARE THE SERVICE TIMES?

We have two distinct venues and approaches to worship here at Millbrook. Depending on the the venue and time, you can experience worship with our choir and orchestra or with our Modern Worship Band. Be sure to join us for coffee and fellowship time in the Connection Center before the service begins.

9:00 AM – Celebration Service in our Main Worship Center (Worship with Choir and Orchestra)

11:10 AM – Modern Worship in our Main Worship Center (Worship with Modern Worship Band)

I was still trying to figure out the why? of Traditional worship and Contemporary worship when I get hit with Celebration Service and Modern Worship! Perhaps the women swish their hips differently, I don't know.

I don't know the "why" of what a congregation does but at my age I doubt it matters, at least not for long! I am simply thankful that Scripture reveals the following: For I am the LORD, I change not!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother, I know how you feel.

I posted Scripture earlier in response to the OP and I believe that Scripture is appropriate. That being said there are many reasons why people don't go to a congregational ??worship?? service but I will not bore you with a list. Perhaps the following from a web site for the congregation where i have membership helps:

In any event Brother.....thank the Good Lord they stand up for the music, otherwise I'd be snoring in the back & disturbing their riveting service. But what I attempting to understand is why it takes 6 people including the Pastor to teach Approx 35 people SS Class. I mean, since this new pastor is also a community College teacher, couldn't he teach everyone in one big room?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Scripture tells us:

Matthew 18:20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 10:19-25
19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21. And having an high priest over the house of God;
22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Dear Brother in Christ.......AMEN & another hearty & sincere "AMEN" :thumbs:

May the lord bless you & keep you.....and I'm right behind you!!!:jesus:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have not walked in your shoes and do not claim to understand what you have been through... No brother or sister can understand the cross that each of us has had to bear in our lives in service to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... The one thing that stands out in your post to me is this... I care about my relationship with Christ!... Attend church on that premise and gravitate to those also that are seeking such and are broken. In my case, daily I've have to step out of my way and surrender to the Lord. I find when I do that I allow the Lord to work in whatever circumstances I find myself in... You know you are my Brother in the Lord!... Brother Glen:godisgood:

Thank you Brother Glen.....I appreciate your advice. God Bless!:thumbs:

 

[wpe3bql]

I dont understand that last comment. I guess i dont understand church either though. See, i can sit with my wife or my brother and have long and legnthy conversations about God, i can sit in my car alone and pray and feel his presence, I can listen to sermon audio or read a book by Martyn Lloyd Jones and feel the presence....but i dont get it in church.

Bro. E,W & F--- See my PM to you on what you posted here.
---wpe3bql

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

From Jimmy Dorrell, pastor of Church under the Bridge --

"The church is like Noah's ark: it stinks, but if you get out, you'll drown."

5 reasons for going to church ...

1. To be obedient to Scripture.
2. To worship in a community of believers.
3. To hear the Scriptures preached.
4. To fellowship with other Christ followers.
5. To be the body of Christ to a hurt and dying world.

 

[Darrell C]

From Jimmy Dorrell, pastor of Church under the Bridge --

"The church is like Noah's ark: it stinks, but if you get out, you'll drown."

lol

Thanks for that.


God bless.

 

[steaver]

It is a Biblical pattern, there is no question, but it is just my opinion that using Hebrews 10:25 to make that point is in error.

Let me ask you this: when is the last time you fellowshipped with believers that really wanted to get into a Theological Discussion? It is a little discouraging to me that seldom, at church functions...does anyone talk about the Lord and the Bible.




Agreed. However, the Church was certainly not secluded to fellowship in the Church. If that were true...there would not have been the converts there were.




And in general there is rebuke for most of the Churches.

There is a danger with complacency when our Christianity becomes secluded to fellowship with our local Body.




This is very true. There has been a movement which has sought to discourage fellowship, and I am against this entirely. However, when it comes to Hebrews, several passages are used out of context to teach something that is not found in the text. To teach that not going to Church is the willful sin in view is just one of them, and it is an abuse that most preachers engage in.




It is only in the sense of the unregenerate who have rejected Christ in favor of the First Covenant, that is the truth in the historical context, and can be practically applied to any rejection of Christ today, and not see the substitute as exclusively the Covenant of Law being the preferred method of worship.

Anything that replaces God's will as found in the Word of God applies.

A modern parallel would be the Legalist who still thinks God is accepting obedience to the Law as a means of relationship.




While I understand that fully I would suggest that you are on the right track for enlarging your borders in regards to spiritual growth, namely...Doctrinal Discussion.

When we test our beliefs with our brothers and sisters we are challenged in the views we have, those views sometimes being confirmed, sometimes being denied...by the very Word of God. We can accelerate our understanding simply by being in the Word of God, and that is one thing that is going to happen if you spend any amount of time debating Theology.

The flip side is a simple diet received only while in Church. This is common in the Body of Christ, and it shows.




Sorry, but there is no way you can possibly violate Hebrews 10:25, for the simple fact that you were never in Covenant with God through the First Covenant as those Hebrews which the Writer addressed were.

And that is something we have to consider: these were people who were legitimately in relationship with God coming to grips with the Religion they had been born in bred into being made obsolete.

That was a tough pill to swallow for many of them.

But consider this rebuke from the Writer:


Hebrews 5:8-12

King James Version (KJV)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


The First Principles of the Oracles (Word) of God in view here are those truths found in the Old Testament/Covenant. Those truths were foundational, and the exhortation is to progress from them:


Hebrews 6

King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


There were Hebrews who were still clinging to what they knew of the coming Christ (which in large part was erroneous on the part of Israel) instead of embracing what had been revealed in Christ Himself.

Those foundational principles are not to be laid again as commanded by the Writer (and ultimately the Holy Ghost) which is exactly what we see our legalistic brothers and sisters doing today.




Not a possibility for you if you are a born again believer. This applies only to those who have rejected the Ministry of the Comforter (who convicts unbelievers of sin, righteousness, and judgment) which ultimately is a rejection of Christ.

For the believer, we know...


John 10:27-29

King James Version (KJV)

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


The writer is not warning believers...but unbelievers.




Agreed, but we should not discount the Promises of God concerning Eternal Salvation. And this is why we have to understand the "spiritual condition" of the disciples before this...


Hebrews 9:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.


It was not until Christ died, rose again, returned to Heaven, and sent the Spirit of Promise (the Comforter)...that Eternal Redemption became available for man.

Only the Blood (Death, Sacrifice) of Christ can restore relationship with God on an Eternal basis.


God bless.

EXCELLENT post brother! :thumbsup: So many on here miss the whole reason Jesus Christ came. They miss the New Covenant. They do not understand the NEW birth after the glorification of Jesus Christ. They are like Nicodemus, "how can these things be?" Good post!! :thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

I thought of this thread as I read this article this morning.

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god...-even-when-i-dont-feel-it#5xkDJ7tPx1tKdRVA.99

 

[Darrell C]

EXCELLENT post brother! :thumbsup: So many on here miss the whole reason Jesus Christ came. They miss the New Covenant. They do not understand the NEW birth after the glorification of Jesus Christ. They are like Nicodemus, "how can these things be?" Good post!! :thumbsup:

Hello brother Steaver, glad to see you still at it.

It is true that there is seldom emphasis placed on the importance of the New Covenant, and it really boils down to the promises of God, and when they are bestowed.

In regards to "missing" why Christ came, we have no better example than Peter, who, when we examine his actions...was in opposition to the Gospel of Christ. Praise God Peter was not left to work things out for himself, lol, nor are we.

Keep up the good work, my friend.


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

From Jimmy Dorrell, pastor of Church under the Bridge --

"The church is like Noah's ark: it stinks, but if you get out, you'll drown."

5 reasons for going to church ...

1. To be obedient to Scripture.
2. To worship in a community of believers. Define what that is exactly please.
3. To hear the Scriptures preached. I can hear that on Sermon Audio & on my CD's, right?
4. To fellowship with other Christ followers. Dont I do that with dialoging with my wife, my brother & my friends who are all christian?
5. To be the body of Christ to a hurt and dying world.[/QUOTE] I think I am that from when I awake till I go to sleep.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I thought of this thread as I read this article this morning.

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god...-even-when-i-dont-feel-it#5xkDJ7tPx1tKdRVA.99

Im not convinced..... I need to see people acting differently, more christlike.....unfortunately all Ive seen is dysfunctional people who are confused and very hypercritical. Thus my question why!

 

[annsni]

Im not convinced..... I need to see people acting differently, more christlike.....unfortunately all Ive seen is dysfunctional people who are confused and very hypercritical. Thus my question why!

So you see human beings. That shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So you see human beings. That shouldn't be a surprise.

Obviously your not a "Lordship Salvation" fan. LOL. Here is my point..... other than holding to Hebrews, I can meet & dialog with other Christians every day, I can get great sermons via other sources, I can work with the poor & see Christ in the people of my neighborhood, I can listen to Christian music on the radio, TV, CD etc. I can pray with others & have bible studies with others without the church. Soooo......whats the big deal?!? Oh maybe at one time without all the technical advancements we have today, I would have had to go to a building where there were meetings, but much of that has become antiquated in my eyes.

 

[annsni]

Obviously your not a "Lordship Salvation" fan. LOL. Here is my point..... other than holding to Hebrews, I can meet & dialog with other Christians every day, I can get great sermons via other sources, I can work with the poor & see Christ in the people of my neighborhood, I can listen to Christian music on the radio, TV, CD etc. I can pray with others & have bible studies with others without the church. Soooo......whats the big deal?!? Oh maybe at one time without all the technical advancements we have today, I would have had to go to a building where there were meetings, but much of that has become antiquated in my eyes.

How do you edify the body of Christ with the gifts the Spirit has given you? Are you accountable to anyone? Does the person on the internet or TV who is preaching the sermon have a relationship with you and you with them? Do you know their testimony? Do you see them with their wife/children/other believers to see if their testimony is true? When you work with the poor, are you bringing them to Christ? How are you then discipling them to grow in their faith? When you listen to Christian music, are you worshiping Christ with fellow believers together? Do you stand in witness to new believers being baptized? How about the Lord's Supper? How do you have the Lord's Supper alone when He showed us that it is with fellow believers? How do you sharpen iron without another iron?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How do you edify the body of Christ with the gifts the Spirit has given you? Are you accountable to anyone? Does the person on the internet or TV who is preaching the sermon have a relationship with you and you with them? Do you know their testimony? Do you see them with their wife/children/other believers to see if their testimony is true? When you work with the poor, are you bringing them to Christ? How are you then discipline them to grow in their faith? When you listen to Christian music, are you worshiping Christ with fellow believers together? Do you stand in witness to new believers being baptized? How about the Lord's Supper? How do you have the Lord's Supper alone when He showed us that it is with fellow believers? How do you sharpen iron without another iron?

All nice things but none are essential to ones salvation ....that would be (unless I'm misinformed) unmerited Grace given by the HS. Regarding being accountable, am I not accountable to God? Who else should I be accountable to? Lastly, the sermons I listen to are mostly through Sermon Audio. Also other notables I listen to include Rev Barnhouse, MLJ, George Whitefield, Albert Mueller, Furgusen, James Montgomery Boice etc. As I understand it, they would be the Saints so I think I'm being fed properly. These people sharpen me (along with the HS).