Why do so many Christians confuse verses about the Rapture and the Second Coming?

[AVL1984]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this? Why would they do this? Has proper exegesis and hermeneutics gone out the window these past few years? Can anyone give the clear-cut distinction between these two events (whether you accept them or not) and the Scriptures that SHOULD be used for both? I know which ones go where but would like to see some PUBLIC answers on it. I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks.

 

[agedman]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this? Why would they do this? Has proper exegesis and hermeneutics gone out the window these past few years? Can anyone give the clear-cut distinction between these two events (whether you accept them or not) and the Scriptures that SHOULD be used for both? I know which ones go where but would like to see some PUBLIC answers on it. I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks.

They are completely separate events.

One takes place (imo) in Revelation 14: 14-16, the other one takes place in Revelation 19 and 20.

Note, the marriage supper in chapter 19 with the King returning in chapter 20 with the hosts.


Is this what you wanted?

 

[37818]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this?

Because the resurrection takes place at the second appearing, and this "first resurrection," Revelation 20:6, takes place only once to be really the first resurrection before the rapture 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 John 3:2, and Hebrews 9:28. There is only one second appearing. Titus 2:13.

 

[Iconoclast]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this? Why would they do this? Has proper exegesis and hermeneutics gone out the window these past few years? Can anyone give the clear-cut distinction between these two events (whether you accept them or not) and the Scriptures that SHOULD be used for both? I know which ones go where but would like to see some PUBLIC answers on it. I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks.

Jesus said it happens on the last day.3xin jn6.

 

[Lodic]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this? Why would they do this? Has proper exegesis and hermeneutics gone out the window these past few years? Can anyone give the clear-cut distinction between these two events (whether you accept them or not) and the Scriptures that SHOULD be used for both? I know which ones go where but would like to see some PUBLIC answers on it. I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks.

As I understand it, the Rapture is a separate event where Christians are taken away into Heaven either before, during, or after the Great Tribulation. Christ's 2nd Coming is supposed to happen after the Great Tribulation to establish His Millennial Kingdom. I agree that preachers and Bible teachers often mix passages of the 2nd Coming with those that are supposed to be about the Rapture. 1 Thes 4:13-17 seems to be one of the main "proof texts" for the Rapture. Rev 3:10 is also used to support this view. Finally, 1 Cor 15:51-53 is another passage I've heard used to support the Rapture.

How could people do this? Possibly they haven't studied eschatology enough, or they just repeat what they've heard or read from others say. So, yes, proper exegesis and hermeneutics seem to have gone out the window.

As a disclaimer, although I used to believe in the popular view of "End Times" events (the Rapture, future Great Tribulation, etc), I switched to a Preterist view many years ago, so I don't even believe in the Rapture. Having said that, I am not here to change the topic to "End Times" views. This is an interesting topic because of the fact that many preachers and teachers provide poor support for their views. I think that those who teach these views should study more carefully because if they have the passages confused, they will cause their audiences to also be confused.

 

[timtofly]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this? Why would they do this? Has proper exegesis and hermeneutics gone out the window these past few years? Can anyone give the clear-cut distinction between these two events (whether you accept them or not) and the Scriptures that SHOULD be used for both? I know which ones go where but would like to see some PUBLIC answers on it. I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks.

The question is why did some human separate the rapture from the Second Coming, when no Scripture ever claims that.

It is a good thing some finally teach the Word of God.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is a return, but not that return. Jesus clearly stated no one knows, and John did not "spill the beans" in Revelation. The return after a clearly defined 42 month absence is not the Second Coming. Now you all can balk at Christ being absent for 42 months, but that is what John claims in Revelation 13.

The Second Coming is the 6th Seal being opened. That is before the 7th Seal. That is before 6 angels sound their Trumpets, and before 7 Thunders sound their judgments. That is before the archangel sounds the 7th Trumpet for a week of days. That archangel will also sound the Trump of God at the Second Coming. No one yet knows when the Second Coming will happen. Only when God tells Jesus the Messiah to return as Prince, will things start to heat up.

Not that the 4th Seal is a cold war. It may be a warning sign, or it all may happen so fast people's heads spin. Every one knows when Revelation 19 takes place, so that rules out any possibility that it is the Second Coming.

The Second Coming is not post trib. The 42 months allowed by God, for the FP, Satan, and the beast is post trib. The tribulation is the final harvest. Christ as Prince and the angels are on earth for the final harvest, Matthew 13 and Matthew 25. The final harvest is not a remote control event from heaven. Christ is here in person. Therefore the Second Coming brings Christ to earth for the final harvest. The Second Coming will remove the church in a rapture event, and we will forever be with the Lord at that point. Jesus as Prince will be on earth with the angels gathering the final harvest.

When the church split the rapture from the Second Coming is when she went wrong and stopped teaching God's Word, but only human assumptions. The church was full of splits in the last 200 years.

 

[John of Japan]

I just have to put in two cents worth--and probably won't post again here (but maybe). I have a lot to do right now. (Plus, too many anti-rapture people on the thread already. They seem to flock like crows. )

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 is about the Rapture, not the Second Coming in Power and Glory, because Jesus stops in the clouds, and that is where the saints meet him. If it were the Second Coming, He would descend to earth.

In passages on the Second Coming He actually descends to Earth with the saints, notably the Mount of Olive (Zechariah 14:4) and rules on the throne of David.

Carry on.

 

[canadyjd]

I have been listening to many preachers over the past few months online preaching on the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church. I consistently hear these preachers confusing or combining the Scriptures about the Second Coming as the Rapture of the Church. How in the world could these men do this? Why would they do this? Has proper exegesis and hermeneutics gone out the window these past few years? Can anyone give the clear-cut distinction between these two events (whether you accept them or not) and the Scriptures that SHOULD be used for both? I know which ones go where but would like to see some PUBLIC answers on it. I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks.

Matthew 24 speaks of Christ’s return and, He says, the angels will collect the elect from the earth.

That is the 2nd coming and the rapture occurring at the same time, followed immediately by the great throne judgment.

I take it you see Matthew 24 differently?

peace to you

 

[timtofly]

In passages on the Second Coming He actually descends to Earth with the saints, notably the Mount of Olive (Zechariah 14:4) and rules on the throne of David.

This is not the way Revelation 19 reads. The Second Coming is the opening of the 6th Seal. Of course the church all meets in the air. Then forever with the Lord. Lord God.

The Lamb continues on to the Mt. Of Olives as Prince to sit on that throne. Sits there all through the Trumpets and Thunders. Then still sits there unless the 7th Trumpet gets split like Daniel 9:27 points out. Messiah Prince is sitting on that throne confirming the Atonement Covenant. Only if it comes up "short", will a 42 month extension to the final harvest be granted.

The 42 months is to allow for any souls needing to remain in the book of life to loose their heads. It is not for Satan, the FP, nor the beast. The throne in Jerusalem is given to Satan to overcome the last of saints who need to be beheaded. If no one is left to behead, those 42 months are not even necessary.

No 42 months, no 7 vials, and certainly no Armageddon and no Revelation 19. Christ the Prince has already been on the throne during the GT. The 7th Trumpet ends the GT. The Millennium starts right away on schedule. No splitting the 7th Trumpet into two halves of the celebration week.

 

[Iconoclast]

I just have to put in two cents worth--and probably won't post again here (but maybe). I have a lot to do right now. (Plus, too many anti-rapture people on the thread already. They seem to flock like crows. )

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 is about the Rapture, not the Second Coming in Power and Glory, because Jesus stops in the clouds, and that is where the saints meet him. If it were the Second Coming, He would descend to earth.

In passages on the Second Coming He actually descends to Earth with the saints, notably the Mount of Olive (Zechariah 14:4) and rules on the throne of David.

Carry on.

1thess4 answers the question what about departed saints....they are raised with us.Jesus said it was on the last day.

 

[John of Japan]

1thess4 answers the question what about departed saints....they are raised with us.Jesus said it was on the last day.

I'm not sure what point you are making here.

 

[JesusFan]

I just have to put in two cents worth--and probably won't post again here (but maybe). I have a lot to do right now. (Plus, too many anti-rapture people on the thread already. They seem to flock like crows. )

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 is about the Rapture, not the Second Coming in Power and Glory, because Jesus stops in the clouds, and that is where the saints meet him. If it were the Second Coming, He would descend to earth.

In passages on the Second Coming He actually descends to Earth with the saints, notably the Mount of Olive (Zechariah 14:4) and rules on the throne of David.

Carry on.

I agree with the rapture, buts its the second coming event itself!

 

[John of Japan]

I agree with the rapture, buts its the second coming event itself!

I don't understand this post.

 

[JesusFan]

I don't understand this post.

There is a rapture of the Church, but that is the actual Second Coming event, historical premil

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm not sure what point you are making here.

Hello John,
Just stopped driving ,sorry I could not respond earlier.
I believe in the catching up, from the latin I believe we get the word rapture.

I went and read 1 thess 4 in that I had not looked at it recently.
In verses 1-12...He is giving instruction on Holy living and what they have been called too.

Then Paul addresses the question, what about saints who have died?
he is trying to not have them sorrow as others who have no hope.

He explains the rapture.

In a different context Jesus explained the resurrection of believers as happening at the last day;

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I see this now as the timing of the rapture..the last day

vs 16, and 17, do not prevent this understanding...we will be with the Lord forever.

I was taught to quickly combine this with 1thess5, that the day of the Lord was in our time, and other verses wee tacked on trying to support the view you believe;
rev3:10
rev4:1 come up hither. but Ido not see that as certain now.
So , I agree we will be caught up, but my timeline has been modified.

 

[John of Japan]

Hello John,
Just stopped driving ,sorry I could not respond earlier.
I believe in the catching up, from the latin I believe we get the word rapture.

I went and read 1 thess 4 in that I had not looked at it recently.
In verses 1-12...He is giving instruction on Holy living and what they have been called too.

Then Paul addresses the question, what about saints who have died?
he is trying to not have them sorrow as others who have no hope.

He explains the rapture.

In a different context Jesus explained the resurrection of believers as happening at the last day;

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I see this now as the timing of the rapture..the last day

vs 16, and 17, do not prevent this understanding...we will be with the Lord forever.

I was taught to quickly combine this with 1thess5, that the day of the Lord was in our time, and other verses wee tacked on trying to support the view you believe;
rev3:10
rev4:1 come up hither. but Ido not see that as certain now.
So , I agree we will be caught up, but my timeline has been modified.

Okay, thanks for the explanation.

 

[John of Japan]

There is a rapture of the Church, but that is the actual Second Coming event, historical premil

So we go up in the Rapture, meet Jesus in the air, then come right back down again so Jesus can reign?

 

[37818]

So we go up in the Rapture, meet Jesus in the air, then come right back down again so Jesus can reign?

In between is the wrath of God
followed by the thousand years of it before the final judgement. Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 11:15-18, Revelation 20:1-15, John 5:28-29. Throughout the prophecies these events are telescoped, like John 5:28-29 etc.

 

[JesusFan]

So we go up in the Rapture, meet Jesus in the air, then come right back down again so Jesus can reign?

Second Coming is when we are gloried and risen in bodily forms!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good day everyone. My first post on bible matters

As I see the rapture vs second coming I think of a few differences.

1. Rapture - we are "caught up" (raptura in latin) in the sky to meet him, vs second coming where he meets us "boots on the ground"
2. Rapture - No one knows the day or hour will come as a theif in the night. where no one is looking (no signs). . vs second coming. due to the end times prophecies, we not only will know about what time he will come. But there are many signs, even the kings of the earth beg the rocks to fall on them because they realize it is the time of wrath. Knowing he will come soon.
3. In revelations, We see raptured sainted, who already received their robes of righteousness, and crowns. Sitting in the throneroom before christ opens the first seal.
4. If one assumes the BEMA seat is after the rapture. We have a time limit, How can the bema seat and rewarding of the raptured saints occur if they are raptured and immediately return.

Now saying this, I also see that scripture clearly says that Jesus will collect the elect when he returns and bring them back with him. In this is something I can not answer and have not heard an answer I really can chew on.

I have studied this for many years. And in my studies. pre-trib appears to be the most biblical. But mid trib and post do have some things which can support their view. Post trib in my view is the least biblically supported however.

Post trib would be rapture and second coming are second event.

Pre and mid meaning they are separate.

I lean to the view they are separate events. and still lean to what I have heard every baptist church I was ever a part of believes and that is pre-trib.