Why Do Some Christians Almost "hate" Concept of There being Election by GOD?

[quantumfaith]

Thats why I asked Bro. If he was serious well then that would be pretty weird. Thank the Lord our brother isnt in the Twilight Zone. My apologies Sir.:thumbs:

There is no need for apologies, I just did not know if you "interpreted" his intent correctly, for that matter I could have been wrong, (it has happened before).

 

[quantumfaith]

Maybe we should arrange a debate between you and Sproul since you so easily "refuted several of the vital assertions" in his books. Share your insights with us.

That would be approximately analogous to you debating William Lane Craig. The result would be the same, one would come away completely embarrassed if for nothing other than the sheer intellectual debating skill of the apologist.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Hello Tom,
I was trying to respond to the original post and put out one mans opinion on what could be happening overall. I probably could add to the list.
I did not have you in mind specifically.If we met face to face it would be easier to get a handle on things as you also have alluded to.
Sometimes the keyboard does not allow for as much nuance as a live conversation.
Tom I am glad you openly and boldly confessed Christ for all of these years.
I take people at their profession. I treat biblical professors as brethren,unless and until I see or hear warning signs and signs of apostate thought.
Paul warned of some who profess, but are really enemies of the cross of Christ.

I take this to mean we are to be on guard for those who are diminishing the work of God.These are real enemies of the cross,and enemies of the people of God. They exist and we all have met and spoken with them.

I believe what is taught as biblical calvinism is the correct teaching of scripture. I think this is no secret here or if we met in person.I openly confess this.I can use the theological terms, or just plain language as when witnessing to the ungodly. It is the consistent teaching of scripture.
I have read those who oppose it...and find all of their arguments to be anti biblical or inconsistent,looking outside of scripture to philosophy. Let me add to my previous list.

5] some are open cultists,deny the trinity or God's grace.

6] some never understand the biblical language...for example..what I see here on the bb is many who do not understand biblical foreknowledge.

You give them a biblical basis for it....they oppose it.....they re-define it with a false idea...then wonder why they cannot agree with those who use a correct biblical definition. Why they do this is between them and God.

7] There are some who repeat error so much that they think it is truth, no matter if the apostles themself would come and explain it to them.
Like those who repeat 2 pet3:9 out of context and claim God cannot save who he purposes to.He wants to,but cannot.
8] Among those chosen by God there are some who cannot grasp some of the teaching just purely from a intellectual basis.

9]Some are too proud to come humbly to the word so God witholds truth from them.

Tom scripture is correct, Yet we are flawed.We can try to help each other come to truth.Some never will however.
God has believers at different levels of maturity.It is one thing to question or be unsure of a teaching....but to actively be found opposing scripture as brother osage posted is scary.

So in addition to those that you have posted before as to why those who don't accept calvinism you now add.

5. we may be cultists

6. we don't understand the Biblical languages

7. we've repeated "the big lie" so often we now believe it

8. We are not intellectually able to grasp it

9. We are too proud

Then you remind me that Scripture is correct as if i might not really accept the inerrancy of Scripture.

I'll kep on saying that many people don't accept Calvinism for none of these reasons. We do not accept it because we don't think it is taught in the Bible, period.

If it makes you feel better about your acceptance of Calvinism to keep believing that non-Calvinists are some kind of aberrant form of Christians, keep at it.

I'll keep on accepting you as a brother in Christ without trying to judge your intellect or spiritual life.

With this I end my foray into the Calvinism/Non-Calvinism debate.

 

[Rippon]

B4L,did God elect you --or did you elect God?

 

[Iconoclast]

Tom,

Maybe you can make a list about why you believe it to be error.If you have a careful understanding of scripture present your scriptural case.
Can you honestly say that some of these things I have posted are not so?
Just look at some posts on the BB.Some fall directly into one or another of the points offered.
I notice that I posted some....you change it to we.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Really.....could you point it out? I fail to see any! Perhaps that perception is in the eye of the beholder.

In Calvins own hand taken from the golden booklet...."true humility means respect for others"

 

[Jerome]

"How often, dear Brothers and Sisters, are you assailed, not only by the skeptic, but by our very profound doctrinal brethren? I know some very great doctrinal friends, who, because our experience may not tally with theirs, will sit down and say, “Ah, you don’t know the power of vital godliness.” And they will write very severe things against us and say that we don’t know the great secret, and don’t understand the inner life. You never need trouble yourself about these braggarts—let them talk on till they are finished." —Charles Spurgeon, "Simple But Sound"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"How often, dear Brothers and Sisters, are you assailed, not only by the skeptic, but by our very profound doctrinal brethren? I know some very great doctrinal friends, who, because our experience may not tally with theirs, will sit down and say, “Ah, you don’t know the power of vital godliness.” And they will write very severe things against us and say that we don’t know the great secret, and don’t understand the inner life. You never need trouble yourself about these braggarts—let them talk on till they are finished." —Charles Spurgeon, "Simple But Sound"

Yes....Thats called In one ear & out the other......Profound wisdom from CHS. Praise God!

 

[Rippon]

"How often, dear Brothers and Sisters, are you assailed, not only by the skeptic, but by our very profound doctrinal brethren? I know some very great doctrinal friends, who, because our experience may not tally with theirs, will sit down and say, “Ah, you don’t know the power of vital godliness.” And they will write very severe things against us and say that we don’t know the great secret, and don’t understand the inner life. You never need trouble yourself about these braggarts—let them talk on till they are finished." —Charles Spurgeon, "Simple But Sound"

Yes,this dealt specifically with Keswick proponents -- the higher life folks.

 

[Robert Snow]

That's heretical. And for saying such things he certainly was not a "good" preacher.

No it isn't heretical [snipped] There is a doctrinal system that I don't like that is, at best close to heretical, though. Guess which one I'm talking about.

BTW, he was a very good preacher, one thing, he did understand hyperbole. [snipped]

 

[Jerome]

Spurgeon continues:

"But if you do want to answer them, do it humbly by saying, “Well, you may be right and I may be mistaken, but yet I think I can say, ‘One thing I know, that whereas I was blind, now I see.’” And I have known them to sometimes go to the length of saying if we don’t hold all their points of Doctrine and go the whole 18 ounces to the pound, as they do—if we are content with 16 and keep to God’s weights and God’s measures—“Ah, those people cannot be truly converted Christians, they are not so high in Doctrine as we are.” Well, we can answer them with this, “One thing I know, that whereas I was blind, now I see.”"

But of course, this doesn't have any application to anybody here, since we aren't those high-doctrine "Keswick people".

 

[Jerome]

"There are certain doctrinal brethren, good enough in their way, but still you can evidently see that the doctrine of election is a thing that they contend more for than the doctrine of the redemption of Christ; or if it be redemption, it is rather the speciality of redemption than the divine sacrifice itself. I love to preach the distinguishing grace of God, but I am far from thinking that some four or five points comprise all the truths which God has revealed." —Charles Spurgeon, "The Holy Spirit Glorifying Christ"

 

[Rippon]

I am far from thinking that some four or five points comprise all the truths which God has revealed." —Charles Spurgeon

And I,more than many Calvinists here,have repeatedly emphasized that there is much more to Calvinism than the brief T.U.L.I.P. which didn't come out until 1913.

Calvinism is much more full-orbed --we believe in teaching/preaching the whole counsel of the Word of God.

 

[preachinjesus]

Man ya go away for a couple of hours and come back and the whole thing has devolved into a shouting match. No surprises here...lol sorta normal by now

 

[psalms109:31]

Election

You can say that both parties hate the others concept of election. I don't hate election and those who hate election hate the word of God.

I don't think it is ever hate that drives us, but love for our brother that drives us. That in their heart they truly believe that the other is in error and wants to use the scripture that convinced them to show them their error. Some do get frustrated that the other can't see it, it is right their in the word of God

 

[rsr]

Please refrain from personal snipping. It's unbecoming.

 

[Allan]

The FACT is, very few Christians 'hate' the concept of God's election.

What most do not like is the theological conception of some regarding their view of the election process.

 

[Iconoclast]

ewf,
you asked;

Pardon my question Brother Iconoclast, but how long have you been a Reformed Believer & before that you did say you were RC so were you just as resolute in your Catholic studies as you are now?

I have been a Reformed Baptist for 35 years. I was an unsaved RC, although I made communion and confirmation. We used a st.josephs missal rather than a bible...so no I had never read a bible as a catholic.I was living a completely ungodly life through college,, and actually started to read the bible to try and disprove it. I did not know the ot from the nt,I did not know how to look up a bible verse...did not know what the numbers where!
I thought cults like mormon and jw were all christian churches. I was completely naive.......But God who is rich in mercy saved me or I would have split hell wide open....
I am the last person that would have ever believed the bible, I was not seeking God..I was in complete rebellion and cursing at christians,when God showed me my sinfulness.
I know salvation is all of God because I never would have believed the bible.
I have always known as a believer that God has predestined all things as soon as I read eph 1....that was not even a question.
my first real exposure to theological instruction came when a friend told me about believers chapel in Dallas, that I could get free tapes.
Then I started listening to christian radio and,taping sermons every night.
That was about two years after God saved me.

 

[David Lamb]

Please refrain from personal snipping. It's unbecoming.

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken"....and meant to put "sniping". Snipping is surely something we are encouraged to do when necessary, rather than quoting the whole message.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The FACT is, very few Christians 'hate' the concept of God's election.

What most do not like is the theological conception of some regarding their view of the election process.

Amen and amen!