Why do some Reformed/Calvinist "pastors" advocate unbiblical evangelism?

[evangelist6589]

It amazes me as I was expecting this only from Arminian but take a look around and there are Reformed whom advocate the sinners prayer, friendship evangelism, and non Biblical approaches to evangelism that does not emphasize the LAW to convict of sin, nor aim for the conscience. There are Reformed whom seem to miss the entire point of whom is behind the conversion experience. Maybe they do this because they are ignorant and either unwilling or afraid to read and do a study on what the scriptures teach on the subject. They are too caught up in "results" and "traditions" that they cannot see the light and error of their ways. Can someone explain this strange and unusual happening?

People that are results oriented will always point to the 1,000 true converts of 10,000 false converts whom came to christ using modern evangelism's methods focusing on quick decisions, and results. They usually completely ignore the 9,000 whom made decisions for Christ, yet have walked away from the faith due to them being a false convert.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

It amazes me as I was expecting this only from Arminian but take a look around and there are Reformed whom advocate the sinners prayer ...

Romans 10, NASB
8 But what does it say ? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart " - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

If that's not a "sinner's prayer," I don't know what is.

... friendship evangelism ...

John 4
28 So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men,
29 "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ, is it?"
30 They went out of the city, and were coming to Him.
---
41 Many more believed because of His word;
42 and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."​

The first instance of friendship evangelism recorded in human history, and it's in the book of John.

... and non Biblical approaches to evangelism that does not emphasize the LAW to convict of sin, nor aim for the conscience.

While I admire Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort's methodology, it isn't new, and there are very few methods of evangelism that don't challenge a person's better view of themselves than Christ has. You seem to think Way of the Master is the end all and be all of personal evangelism. It isn't. It's good, no doubt. But there are other methods equally effective, and to call them "unbiblical" simply because they don't specifically and formally address sin through the Mosaic Law is absurd.

There are Reformed whom seem to miss the entire point of whom is behind the conversion experience. Maybe they do this because they are ignorant and either unwilling or afraid to read and do a study on what the scriptures teach on the subject. They are too caught up in "results" and "traditions" that they cannot see the light and error of their ways. Can someone explain this strange and unusual happening?

Then there are those who are overly critical of others, think they have all the answers, and believe the only "right" way is their way. Perhaps you can explain to me why that happens?

People that are results oriented will always point to the 1,000 true converts of 10,000 false converts whom came to christ using modern evangelism's methods focusing on quick decisions, and results.

The mistake you and others make, who criticize these allegedly "quick decisions," is that those who make those decisions have been thinking about it for some time. Otherwise they wouldn't be in a place where the could hear the truth, feel the work of the Holy Spirit upon them, and once and for all make that decision. While I understand our Pentecostal brothers and sisters are guilty of emotionalism whipped to a frenzy to "force" an on-the-spot decision by people who previously haven't thought about their need for salvation (and at that point haven't really made a decision anyway), rarely are there "quick decisions" made when proper evangelistic efforts have been exerted. It is simply a matter of one "reaping the harvest" after a chain of 15, 20 or a hundred people who have planted a seed, watered, fertilized, encouraged along the way. To claim these to be "quick decisions" is to utterly fail to understand the process that God brings a believer through before their actual salvation.

They usually completely ignore the 9,000 whom made decisions for Christ, yet have walked away from the faith due to them being a false convert.

And whose counting heads now? Keeping a tally of "how many I've led to the Lord" doesn't appeal to me. It isn't a measuring rod of my "righteousness" or "engagement in God's work." It isn't even me who did it. I simply speak words. God does the work. Counting heads is an egocentric method of "counting sheep" that removes Christ from the throne and puts me on it. No thanks.

 

[quantumfaith]

Romans 10, NASB
8 But what does it say ? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart " - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

If that's not a "sinner's prayer," I don't know what is.

John 4
28 So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men,29 "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done ; this is not the Christ, is it?"
30 They went out of the city, and were coming to Him.
---
41 Many more believed because of His word;
42 and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."​

The first instance of friendship evangelism recorded in human history, and it's in the book of John.

While I admire Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort's methodology, it isn't new, and there are very few methods of evangelism that don't challenge a person's better view of themselves than Christ has. You seem to think Way of the Master is the end all and be all of personal evangelism. It isn't. It's good, no doubt. But there are other methods equally effective, and to call them "unbiblical" simply because they don't specifically and formally address sin through the Mosaic Law is absurd.

Then there are those who are overly critical of others, think they have all the answers, and believe the only "right" way is their way. Perhaps you can explain to me why that happens?

And whose counting heads now? Keeping a tally of "how many I've led to the Lord" doesn't appeal to me. It isn't a measuring rod of my "righteousness" or "engagement in God's work." It is an egocentric method of "counting sheep" that removes Christ from the throne and puts me on it. No thanks.

STANDING OVATION....wish there was an emoticon for that.

 

[Reformed]

It amazes me as I was expecting this only from Arminian but take a look around and there are Reformed whom advocate the sinners prayer, friendship evangelism, and non Biblical approaches to evangelism that does not emphasize the LAW to convict of sin, nor aim for the conscience. There are Reformed whom seem to miss the entire point of whom is behind the conversion experience. Maybe they do this because they are ignorant and either unwilling or afraid to read and do a study on what the scriptures teach on the subject. They are too caught up in "results" and "traditions" that they cannot see the light and error of their ways. Can someone explain this strange and unusual happening?

People that are results oriented will always point to the 1,000 true converts of 10,000 false converts whom came to christ using modern evangelism's methods focusing on quick decisions, and results. They usually completely ignore the 9,000 whom made decisions for Christ, yet have walked away from the faith due to them being a false convert.

Can you provide some specific examples of Reformed pastors that support "unbiblical evangelism"?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Romans 10, NASB
8 But what does it say ? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart " - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

If that's not a "sinner's prayer," I don't know what is.

Then I guess you don't know what is. That's nothing at all like "And now, with every head bowed and every eye closed, just repeat this canned prayer after me..."

The first instance of friendship evangelism recorded in human history, and it's in the book of John.

Verse, please.

While I admire Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort's methodology, it isn't new

No, it isn't new, it's just been forgotten and cast aside in favor of pop-Christianity and "Friend, is there something missing in your life?" nonsense.

 

[evangelist6589]

Can you provide some specific examples of Reformed pastors that support "unbiblical evangelism"?

Kent Hughes in a book advocates friendship evangelism. Erwin Lutzer (whom leans Reformed) also advocates friendship evangelism in a book, as well as the sinners prayer. Also DA Carson in a certain book on evangelism writes to the intellect and thinks one can persuade others by that instead of using the LAW to convict the conscience.

There are just a few I can think of the top of my head but over the years I have run into many more.

 

[Don]

Question: in street preaching, how many of those that made a profession of faith, when they were done, walked down the street and went back to their old ways?

If you don't know, then you have no foundation to deride the methods of others.

 

[preachinjesus]

At this point, it is abundantly clear that the OP refuses to take the counsel of others on this board that his method of evangelism isn't THE biblical model. It is dangerously myopic and terribly unbiblical to suggest there is only ONE model, given the plethora of other examples.

 

[evangelist6589]

Romans 10, NASB
8 But what does it say ? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart " - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

If that's not a "sinner's prayer," I don't know what is.

John 4
28 So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men,
29 "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ, is it?"
30 They went out of the city, and were coming to Him.
---
41 Many more believed because of His word;
42 and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."​

The first instance of friendship evangelism recorded in human history, and it's in the book of John.

While I admire Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort's methodology, it isn't new, and there are very few methods of evangelism that don't challenge a person's better view of themselves than Christ has. You seem to think Way of the Master is the end all and be all of personal evangelism. It isn't. It's good, no doubt. But there are other methods equally effective, and to call them "unbiblical" simply because they don't specifically and formally address sin through the Mosaic Law is absurd.

Then there are those who are overly critical of others, think they have all the answers, and believe the only "right" way is their way. Perhaps you can explain to me why that happens?

The mistake you and others make, who criticize these allegedly "quick decisions," is that those who make those decisions have been thinking about it for some time. Otherwise they wouldn't be in a place where the could hear the truth, feel the work of the Holy Spirit upon them, and once and for all make that decision. While I understand our Pentecostal brothers and sisters are guilty of emotionalism whipped to a frenzy to "force" an on-the-spot decision by people who previously haven't thought about their need for salvation (and at that point haven't really made a decision anyway), rarely are there "quick decisions" made when proper evangelistic efforts have been exerted. It is simply a matter of one "reaping the harvest" after a chain of 15, 20 or a hundred people who have planted a seed, watered, fertilized, encouraged along the way. To claim these to be "quick decisions" is to utterly fail to understand the process that God brings a believer through before their actual salvation.

And whose counting heads now? Keeping a tally of "how many I've led to the Lord" doesn't appeal to me. It isn't a measuring rod of my "righteousness" or "engagement in God's work." It isn't even me who did it. I simply speak words. God does the work. Counting heads is an egocentric method of "counting sheep" that removes Christ from the throne and puts me on it. No thanks.

The LAW was adovacted by Charles Spurgeon, Whitfield, Wesley and others. If you read the Bible closely you will see that it is the LAW that convicts of sin. How did Paul get convicted of sin? By the law. Refer to the verse in my signature and also Psalms 19. The Way of the Master is not about Ray Comfort its about doing things the way Jesus did and evangelizing using his principles. People get confused and they say I am following Comfort, when in reality I am following Jesus. Comfort does not load his 350 page book on evangelism with his personal stories and experiences, he loads the book with scripture and quotes from historical theologians and evangelists from the past. One such quote is this.

The Law serves a most necessary purpose. He said of sinners they will never accept grace until they tremble before a just and holy Law (Charles H. Spurgeon, The Prince of Preachers).

More quotes are contained in the book by JC Ryle, Martin Lyold Jones and others.

While it is true that Comfort may exaggerate in his book a little, he does make a point about the many professing believers whom are false converts. Why don't you try reading the book and looking up the verses he cites instead of just dismissing the principles? Its 350 pages but its an easy read with not many deep words.

 

[evangelist6589]

Question: in street preaching, how many of those that made a profession of faith, when they were done, walked down the street and went back to their old ways?

If you don't know, then you have no foundation to deride the methods of others.

I have never led anyone to the Lord this way. I have hungered many whom have asked questions, but it is God that convicts one of sin. My job is simply to plant the seed of the gospel into as many ears as possible by tracts and open air preaching. I will let God bring about conviction. However as Paul washer has encouraged me in his book, I will also give people a invitation to repent.

 

[evangelist6589]

At this point, it is abundantly clear that the OP refuses to take the counsel of others on this board that his method of evangelism isn't THE biblical model. It is dangerously myopic and terribly unbiblical to suggest there is only ONE model, given the plethora of other examples.

I am reading the 350 page book The Way of the Master and concluding more and more that this is the way Jesus did evangelism. True 1 of 10 people whom come to faith via other methods are saved an I am one example but we cannot point to the results must point to the scriptures when we do our evangelism.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The LAW was adovacted by Charles Spurgeon, Whitfield, Wesley and others. If you read the Bible closely you will see that it is the LAW that convicts of sin.

Kindly point out where I said differently? What I said -- read along with me now ... was this:

While I admire Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort's methodology, it isn't new, and there are very few methods of evangelism that don't challenge a person's better view of themselves than Christ has. You seem to think Way of the Master is the end all and be all of personal evangelism. It isn't. It's good, no doubt. But there are other methods equally effective, and to call them "unbiblical" simply because they don't specifically and formally address sin through the Mosaic Law is absurd.

So no need to rant. But there are other methods of doing much the same.

While it is true that Comfort may exaggerate in his book a little, he does make a point about the many professing believers whom are false converts. Why don't you try reading the book and looking up the verses he cites instead of just dismissing the principles?

I've read his book. He makes that point, true, but he offers no proof it is the so-called "Arminian teachings" or the "easy believism" that is responsible. There are as many unsaved church goers among the New Calvinists as there are among any other niche doctrinal follower.

Its 350 pages but its an easy read with not many deep words.

[sarcasm]
Thanks. You know how hard it is for those of us with Masters degrees working on doctorates to follow big words.
[/sarcasm]

Then I guess you don't know what is.

I know exactly what it is. That is what it is.

That's nothing at all like "And now, with every head bowed and every eye closed, just repeat this canned prayer after me..."

I doubt you can show me that everyone who has prayed for salvation in a service ending like that remains unsaved. Quite the contrary. I'd say there are an equal number of "failures" in any other approach to evangelistic preaching. There's no way to know, and to pick on one aspect while apparently assuming the others are without fault is ludicrous.

Verse, please.

Uh ... you might try looking right above that specific comment in my post.

No, it isn't new, it's just been forgotten and cast aside in favor of pop-Christianity and "Friend, is there something missing in your life?" nonsense.

Don't look now, but that's exactly how Billy Sunday approached the gutter drunk. Care to tell me how he had no effect?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Oops. Wrong thread. Sorry.

 

[evangelist6589]

Oops. Wrong thread. Sorry.

How did you quote multiple posters in one reply?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

How did you quote multiple posters in one reply?

Using multiquote and then editing my responses by coping the "

" code appropriate to segment to which I want to reply.

 

[evangelist6589]

Kindly point out where I said differently? What I said -- read along with me now ... was this:So no need to rant. But there are other methods of doing much the same.I've read his book. He makes that point, true, but he offers no proof it is the so-called "Arminian teachings" or the "easy believism" that is responsible. There are as many unsaved church goers among the New Calvinists as there are among any other niche doctrinal follower.

[sarcasm]
Thanks. You know how hard it is for those of us with Masters degrees working on doctorates to follow big words.
[/sarcasm]I know exactly what it is. That is what it is.I doubt you can show me that everyone who has prayed for salvation in a service ending like that remains unsaved. Quite the contrary. I'd say there are an equal number of "failures" in any other approach to evangelistic preaching. There's no way to know, and to pick on one aspect while apparently assuming the others are without fault is ludicrous.Uh ... you might try looking right above that specific comment in my post.Don't look now, but that's exactly how Billy Sunday approached the gutter drunk. Care to tell me how he had no effect?

I did not mean to be sarcastic I was just saying that the book is very easy to read. Its not as deep or technical as other seminary level works by the likes of DA Carson, RC Sproul, Wayne Grudem and others.

True Comfort does not have all the answers but the book is very rich with scripture and very convincing.

 

[evangelist6589]

Using multiquote and then editing my responses by coping the "

" code appropriate to segment to which I want to reply.

Some other web forums have this feature built in as that is nice not having to copy and paste anything. I just reply to different people and they all show up as one reply.

 

[Winman]

I did not mean to be sarcastic I was just saying that the book is very easy to read. Its not as deep or technical as other seminary level works by the likes of DA Carson, RC Sproul, Wayne Grudem and others.

True Comfort does not have all the answers but the book is very rich with scripture and very convincing.

He was not saying you were sarcastic.

You want to lead folks to the Lord? Start a bus ministry at your church. Go out in the neighborhoods around your church and pick up kids and bring them to church every Sunday and back home again.

I've got a buddy named Bill. He is not the type that would stand in the street and yell at folks, but he has been driving the bus at our church for over 20 years. I bet many hundreds of kids have accepted Jesus as their Savior because of Bill. He doesn't brag or say one word about it, but every Sunday, rain or shine, or bitter cold, he gets up early and starts that bus, and picks up kids all over our town.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Some other web forums have this feature built in ...

So does this one. See that little "[+"]" button between "

" and "[Quick]"? That's the multiquote button. Click on it in all the posts you want to reply to, then open a "PostReply" box and they all show up in in it.

 

[Revmitchell]

At this point, it is abundantly clear that the OP refuses to take the counsel of others on this board that his method of evangelism isn't THE biblical model. It is dangerously myopic and terribly unbiblical to suggest there is only ONE model, given the plethora of other examples.

And very very immature