Why do some Reformed/Calvinist "pastors" advocate unbiblical evangelism?

[evangelist6589]

I have to say that I agree with the criticisms the article offers…if this is the intent of WOTM. I think that the 10 Commandments are a good starting place to illustrate our sinfulness, but this presupposes the person to whom you are speaking accepts at least somewhat of a Christian foundation. Otherwise you end up “selling” what is a debatable theological issue of Gentiles being “under the Law” to someone who isn’t even saved (and this before you can even get to the gospel of Christ).

I made this point earlier in another thread. I think the WOTM is the best way of doing evangelism, however it is not the only way to do evangelism. For example at work I cannot use it, as I have to be the sinners friend...

 

[JonC]

I made this point earlier in another thread. I think the WOTM is the best way of doing evangelism, however it is not the only way to do evangelism. For example at work I cannot use it, as I have to be the sinners friend...

It’s not only that. For example, several years ago I witnessed to an atheistic co-worker (and friend) through what turned out to be several discussions. It was amazing to see the work of God in this young man, but what is pertinent to this thread is that I never once “used the Law to bring him under conviction.” Our conversation began with God as creator, which led to the Creator/creature relationship, and went on from there. In other words, I dealt with him where he was rather than trying to move him into a position to accept the Law. This was several years ago and he is now a youth minister at his church.

I do not offer this as an exception to the rule, as I do not believe there to be such a thing in this context. I offer it as an illustration. There are many who are not Christians, but take for granted that they do not merit perfection. Sometimes it is just as good a “method” to witness of the attributes of God, the status of man, and redemption through Christ. Does it take more time? Sure it does. But I think that it is much more effective to meet people where they are (and that may be the WOTM, but it also may not). In other words, I do not believe that there is a “best” method when it comes to evangelism other than genuinely bearing witnesses of Christ in word and deed.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

If you can prove to me John 4:28-30, 41, 42 don't illustrate friendship evangelism, I'll apologize. Let's see what you got. Denying they are indicative of friendship evangelism isn't proof, it's rhetoric. Bad rhetoric, at that.

Like I said ...

 

[Don]

Evangelist - if you don't have me on ignore and can read this, several pages back I asked what you thought of how Philip worked with the Ethiopian. I would very much like to see your answer to that.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evangelist - if you don't have me on ignore and can read this, several pages back I asked what you thought of how Philip worked with the Ethiopian. I would very much like to see your answer to that.

It may be a passage that WOTM authors have ignored as they have selected various scriptures to make their point, but ignored others that do not support the view. Using the 10 commandments is a great way to show conviction but not the only way. What bothers me is that this approach only comes from WOTM, and other reformed authors seem to disagree and not even mention it.

 

[Rippon]

Try An Experiment!

It may be a passage that WOTM authors have ignored as they have selected various scriptures to make their point, but ignored others that do not support the view. Using the 10 commandments is a great way to show conviction but not the only way. What bothers me is that this approach only comes from WOTM, and other reformed authors seem to disagree and not even mention it.

Evan,seriously --try not to mention WOTM for a solid month and see if you are able to post anything of merit. And as much as I respect John MacArthur, put him on a one-month hiatus also.

 

[Don]

It may be a passage that WOTM authors have ignored as they have selected various scriptures to make their point, but ignored others that do not support the view. Using the 10 commandments is a great way to show conviction but not the only way. What bothers me is that this approach only comes from WOTM, and other reformed authors seem to disagree and not even mention it.

I didn't ask what reformed or WOTM authors thought of this passage; I asked what YOU thought of it.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan,seriously --try not to mention WOTM for a solid month and see if you are able to post anything of merit. And as much as I respect John MacArthur, put him on a one-month hiatus also.

I almost never mention them on FB so I passed the test. Why? Because most there are not theology minded nor care to debate and discuss these things and most are of the mindset that "doctrine divides" and they have no interest in talking about it publicly. Its sad really because people just do not care about doctrine. I expect it from unbelievers, not believers which is what WOTM argues for in the book. How can a true believer not care about doctrine????

 

[evangelist6589]

I didn't ask what reformed or WOTM authors thought of this passage; I asked what YOU thought of it.

I agree there are exceptions to the rule of Law to the proud and Grace to the humble. I practice them when the Lord opens the door as Philip did here.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Evan,seriously --try not to mention WOTM for a solid month and see if you are able to post anything of merit. And as much as I respect John MacArthur, put him on a one-month hiatus also.

:thumbs: Please add Bro. Washer to the list as well.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

:thumbs: Please add Bro. Washer to the list as well.

Second. Call the question. :laugh:

 

[Tom Butler]

What's the problem with Paul Washer?

 

[Thousand Hills]

What's the problem with Paul Washer?

I have no problem with him at all, love the guy. I was just sayin I wish the OP would stop talkin bout him.

 

[Don]

Well, now you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. I originally asked the question because you said this:

Originally Posted by evangelist6589
I have never led anyone to the Lord this way. I have hungered many whom have asked questions, but it is God that convicts one of sin. My job is simply to plant the seed of the gospel into as many ears as possible by tracts and open air preaching. I will let God bring about conviction. However as Paul washer has encouraged me in his book, I will also give people a invitation to repent.

Now you say:

I agree there are exceptions to the rule of Law to the proud and Grace to the humble. I practice them when the Lord opens the door as Philip did here.

My biggest concern with your original statement goes back to this and other threads where people have asked you about discipleship. If we go by your first statement here ("I have hungered many...My job is simply to plant the seed...."), then you don't do discipleship; and if we take your statement at face value, you don't even create disciples. You just simply preach and hand out tracts.

Philip, in the example of the Ethiopian, took the time to discuss the scriptures individually with this man (v30-35), and went together with the Ethiopian (v36), and saw him through to baptism (v36-39). And he did so preaching from Isaiah, NOT Deuteronomy or Leviticus (v35).

The commandment from Matthew 28 and Mark 16 is to teach all nations, and includes baptism; if you do have converts from your ministry, who baptizes them? (I'm not advocating baptism for salvation, but for obedience)

Now, understand: I'm not trying to say that you're doing wrong. If WOTM is your calling, then you need to wholeheartedly embrace and engage in that calling. But if there are scriptural examples of apostles and deacons who are doing things differently than what you're doing, I'm trying to say that you're wrong when you imply that preachers who don't preach the law are not preaching correctly.

Give it some thought.

 

[preachinjesus]

There's plenty of schizophrenia in the OP's posts in this thread.

- The Way of the Master is the biblical model for evangelism
- I've never said there is one model for evangelism

We need some sensibility and sanity here.

 

[annsni]

I would say they advocate friendship evangelism because it's not unbiblical. I also think many advocate the "sinner's prayer" because they use it in a different way than "Pray this prayer and you are saved."

 

[preacher4truth]

Philip, in the example of the Ethiopian, took the time to discuss the scriptures individually with this man (v30-35), and went together with the Ethiopian (v36), and saw him through to baptism (v36-39). And he did so preaching from Isaiah, NOT Deuteronomy or Leviticus (v35).

I'm certain you believe God could use Deuteronomy or Leviticus to save one of His sheep too, correct?

 

[annsni]

We are called to make disciples, are we not? How do we do that without being a friend to them?

 

[Don]

I'm certain you believe God could use Deuteronomy or Leviticus to save one of His sheep too, correct?

Of course.

 

[evangelist6589]

Well, now you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. I originally asked the question because you said this:

Now you say:


My biggest concern with your original statement goes back to this and other threads where people have asked you about discipleship. If we go by your first statement here ("I have hungered many...My job is simply to plant the seed...."), then you don't do discipleship; and if we take your statement at face value, you don't even create disciples. You just simply preach and hand out tracts.

Philip, in the example of the Ethiopian, took the time to discuss the scriptures individually with this man (v30-35), and went together with the Ethiopian (v36), and saw him through to baptism (v36-39). And he did so preaching from Isaiah, NOT Deuteronomy or Leviticus (v35).

The commandment from Matthew 28 and Mark 16 is to teach all nations, and includes baptism; if you do have converts from your ministry, who baptizes them? (I'm not advocating baptism for salvation, but for obedience)

Now, understand: I'm not trying to say that you're doing wrong. If WOTM is your calling, then you need to wholeheartedly embrace and engage in that calling. But if there are scriptural examples of apostles and deacons who are doing things differently than what you're doing, I'm trying to say that you're wrong when you imply that preachers who don't preach the law are not preaching correctly.

Give it some thought.

I realize everyone has their own gifts and personalities. I think WOTM is the best, but may be mistaken in saying it is the only method of evangelism.