Why do the CONs want to withold Medical Care from those who need it?

[Pastor Larry]

So, you folk are saying that Christ's teaching about taking care of others is wrong?

Who said this? And why didn't Christ heal everyone? Seems like Christ's values are different than yours. First, he didn't say thing that weren't true, and second, he didn't heal everyone and he didn't give them everything that he could have given them.

Many of us have repeatedly pointed out that everyone has access to health care.

Sounds like the beliefs of the conservative, fundamental congressmen who like to call themselves the Christian Mafia.

And who is this referring to?

 

[donnA]

Everyone in this country already can recieve medical care.
Why don't these people get jobs?
Some would rather continue free hand outs to those who do not want to work, sit on their butts all day and watch tv, smoke and drink.
Nothing biblical about that.

 

[Salty]

...Why don't these people get jobs?
Some would rather continue free hand outs to those who do not want to work, ...

Because, if they get a job, they may loose their Medicaid (if that is still the case)

Also, I was laid off several years ago from my full time job. I went down to get unemployment, I was denied because, I had a 6 hour part time job on Saturday. Maybe I should have lied about the part time job - I'm sure many do. - if Unemployment still has that policy

 

[Aaron]

So, you folk are saying that Christ's teaching about taking care of others is wrong?

Which teaching is that?

 

[Salty]

So, you folk are saying that Christ's teaching about taking care of others is wrong? ...

NO WE ARE NOT!
We just believe it is NOT the governments job to do so. I am in favor of churches, and social agy's doing so - esp with a minimum of govt interference.

 

[rbell]

So, you folk are saying that Christ's teaching about taking care of others is wrong? That only those "we" think are acceptable should have health care. Sounds like the beliefs of the conservative, fundamental congressmen who like to call themselves the Christian Mafia.

The difference between health care and health insurance has been described in full.

Feel free to ask if you have trouble understanding the big words.

 

[rbell]

unfortunately, CTB thinks that God can't help people unless He gets an assist from the government.

Sad.

 

[Salty]

unfortunately, CTB thinks that God can't help people unless He gets an assist from the government.

Sad.

Rbell,
May I use your quote on my website?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The thrust of most of the posts recently has been about what can be done to prevent the US from providing medical care from those who cannot get it.

From a Biblical perspective I don't see how this is justifiable.

You say "from a Biblical perspective" but you have failed to show where the Bible says that Christians should support the government taking over health care.

Can one of the conservatives enlighten me as to why Christians should not work for making medical more available for all?

We've tried. We fought for tort reform. The liberals shot it down. We fought for MSAs. The liberals shot it down. We fought for government deregulation. The liberals shot it down.

Each of these things would have drastically lowered the cost of health care and made it more available to the poor, but liberals didn't want that. They want to be the ones to provide the health care so that they have a way to control the poor.

 

[alatide]

Because, if they get a job, they may loose their Medicaid (if that is still the case)

Also, I was laid off several years ago from my full time job. I went down to get unemployment, I was denied because, I had a 6 hour part time job on Saturday. Maybe I should have lied about the part time job - I'm sure many do. -f Unemployment still has that policy

I have a friend on disability. He improved somewhat and did some volunteer work for the Salvation Army. He was unpaid but the government deducted the amount of money he might have been paid from his disability. I realize this sounds incredible but I know it to be true. Now he tells me he simply cannot afford to live.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Red herring.

Medical care IS available for all -- NO hospital in the United States can turn someone away in need of urgent care.

When I was a paramedic, I remember went you went into Zurbrug (sp?) Hospital's ER, there was a big sign right by the door that explained that you could NOT be denied care due to inability to pay.

 

[Salty]

I have a friend on disability. He improved somewhat and did some volunteer work for the Salvation Army. He was unpaid but the government deducted the amount of money he might have been paid from his disability. I realize this sounds incredible but I know it to be true. Now he tells me he simply cannot afford to live.

Knowing our govt, I believe it.

 

[alatide]

Depends on what you mean by "adequate." But why does it matter if everyone has "adequate" health care by your definition? Never, in human history, was that even remotely considered necessary.

Why does this matter? Again, you keep changing subjects.

Why was he hospitalized for depression? Something's not right there. You don't get admitted to the hospital for depression.

You have some very strange views that don't stem from critical thinking about the issues.

Everyone has access to health care. And the health care they have access to in America is among the top in the world, if not the top. Anyone can take a study using certain criteria and make it look bad, but that's nonsense, and you know it. Universal health care may be a good thing, but it is not a right.

And you still haven't told us how to pay for it yet.

Let's say you had a heart attack and the ER doctor recommended that you be admitted to a hospital because your life was in danger due to a threat of a second heart attack. You're asking me why does it matter if you can be admitted? Think through this situation.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Assuming that there is anyone who does not get needed medical care, which is untrue and you know it, Conservatives believe such aid is the purview of themselves or charitable organizations.

You see Conservatives who are Christians believe Jesus Christ meant it when He said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive"[Acts 20:35]. Liberals, on the other hand, who claim to be Christians believe it is more blessed to take from others, that is to practice thievery and waste what they take.

But Jesus also said, "Inasmuch as you have lobbied the government to feed the least of these, you have done it unto Me". Or, at least that's what Obama says.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Please, everyone does not have ADEQUATE health care. Granted if a person goes to an emergency room the hospital can't throw them out on the street. However, they can make them wait for hours to see a doctor or transfer them to another hospital, generally the "general hospital" for that area.

I take it you haven't been in an emergency room lately. Waiting for hours is common, regardless of your ability to pay.

Do you think poor people without insurance can easily get admittance to a hospital?

Define "easily".

But of course poor people don't have an MD so they couldn't do this.

If they're that poor, why haven't they applied for Medicaid?

They get all of their care at hospital emergency rooms after waiting for hours.

Again, everybody waits for hours. That's not a lack of insurance issue, that's just the nature of hospital emergency rooms.

I have a good friend who has been hospitalized for depression several times, once at the local "general hospital" and other times at better hospitals. he told me to never let them take him to the poor folks Psych ward again because it was a horrible place. It was basically a lock down facility with no treatment other than medication. It was filled with really crazy people many of which had been judged to be criminally insane. If you think that's good care you're welcome to your opinion but I'll never go to a place like that if I need that kind of care.

Um...are you listening to what you're saying? What you call "general hospitals" are usually run by the government. If the government cannot give good care in that situation, then why do you want them to run the entire health care system?

Ever been into a VA hospital? When I was a paramedic, I routinely had to take patients to VA hospitals and military hospitals like Walston Army Hospital and the Philadelphia Naval Hospital. Government run hospitals are notorious for bad care and terrible conditions. So why do you want the same people who can't run them to be in charge of the whole industry?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

So, you folk are saying that Christ's teaching about taking care of others is wrong? That only those "we" think are acceptable should have health care. Sounds like the beliefs of the conservative, fundamental congressmen who like to call themselves the Christian Mafia.

Crabtrollboy, could you please show us where Christ said that it's the responsibility of the state to take over health care?

 

[HankD]

The thrust of most of the posts recently has been about what can be done to prevent the US from providing medical care from those who cannot get it. From a Biblical perspective I don't see how this is justifiable.

Can one of the CONs enlighten me as to why Christians should not work for making medical more available for all?

HR3200 IMO is not about making medical help available to "more" people but less people in terms of actual life sustaining care while under the guise of covering all people.

Take the Bill in one hand and Dr. Immanuel's writings in the other.
Read them.

You will find that 20-40 is the optimum age range for prioritized health care. Pre-kindergarten children, special needs persons (Down's syndrome)and the elderly would be prioritized at the lowest end of the spectrum because of "limited social investment" value.

Help me here someone, anyone, with this abstract from HR3200 (it would help to first read pages 424-432 (SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION) of this convoluted bill in the section concerning "end of life" and "ESRD (End Stage Renal Disease").

"(I) ensures such orders are standardized and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
(II) distributes or makes accessible such orders to physicians and other health professionals that (acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law) may sign orders for life sustaining treatment;
(III) provides training for health care professionals across the continuum of care about the goals and use of orders for life sustaining treatment"

The question I have is from reading these pages is why is it necessary for the signed order to be for "life sustaining treatment"? In other words the default treatment for ESRD will now be to let them die and "life sustaining treatment (such as kidney dialysis)" would necessitate a written order.

One might say that this is what is already required for ESRD. Right now the standard treatment prescribed by most doctors is dialysis (or you can find one who will prescribe dialysis), However after the bill passes, the government will be running the life-death prescription lottery. Prove that wrong from HR3200. This bill (IMO) is carefully word-smithed and grammar-crafted to avoid inflammatory terms such as "abortion", "euthanasia", "rationing", etc.

In another section it is stated that the Secretary of Health would draw up a document outlining standard treatments for diseases including ESRD.

That alone should be a blinking red light. This bill needs to be thrown out until the government in a multi-partisan way (I am an Independent) spells out exactly what they mean with no second-guessing required.

Yes everyone will be mandated for (not provided for) under 1 of 3 categories 1) abortion (already legalized), 2) prioritized and/or rationed healthcare or 3) "death with dignity" (already legalized in 2 states).


HankD

 

[Salty]

Ever been into a VA hospital? When I was a paramedic, I routinely had to take patients to VA hospitals ...are notorious for bad care and terrible conditions... ?

I dont know much about other VA's, but the Syracuse,NY VA has always given me excellent care.
I have gone to the emergency room a number of times, and I can honestly say that I have never had to an unreasonable amount of time. I might add that my reason for going was not a matter of life or death- Just some "minor" things like cutting my hand (they did say it was a good thing I came in though.)

interesting article

 

[OldRegular]

Please, everyone does not have ADEQUATE health care. Granted if a person goes to an emergency room the hospital can't throw them out on the street. However, they can make them wait for hours to see a doctor or transfer them to another hospital, generally the "general hospital" for that area.

Wasn't that the practice started by Michelle Obama and Obama advisor Axelrod at the University of Chicago Hospital Emergency Room?

 

[OldRegular]

So, you folk are saying that Christ's teaching about taking care of others is wrong? That only those "we" think are acceptable should have health care. Sounds like the beliefs of the conservative, fundamental congressmen who like to call themselves the Christian Mafia.

Only a Marxist would insist that it is the federal governments job to provide medical care. If some of the mega churches would stop building palaces perhaps they could provide a little help to those who need it.