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Why do we need salvation?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Mike Gascoigne, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. Mike Gascoigne

    Mike Gascoigne <img src=/mike.jpg>

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    Soteriology is just a fancy word that means the study of salvation. I've studied Romans lots of times, as an individual and in groups and with commentaries. I doubt that this commentary would tell me anything that I don't already know. However, if you think it answers my question you should be able to tell me plainly what the answer is.

    Mike
     
  2. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Mike G. wrote:

    I have posted on this subject extensively in a number of different threads. I have found that before launching into a debate with a member of this board that it is helpful to review what they have posted about themselves.

    A careful study of the Epistle to the Romans will reveal that your questions show a basic misunderstanding of soteriology. I strongly suggest that you carefully read the commentary by Sanday and Headlam because it will bring to your attention the matters that are involved here and will greatly help you to understand what I believe and why I believe it, and why the science of evolution and the Biblical doctrine of soteriology are not in conflict with each other. The matter is too complicated for me to explain it to individuals who do not have the necessary framework in place to understand my explanation. The commentary by Sanday and Headlam will give you first the necessary framework AND the explanation. After you have carefully and prayerfully read the commentary by Sanday and Headlam, if you still have any questions, I will be pleased to answer them for you.

    Note: The commentary on Romans by Sanday and Headlam is a commentary on the Greek text of that epistle, and it is necessary to have a good knowledge of the Greek language to understand the commentary, but since you are so adamant in your position, I assume that your knowledge of Greek is extensive and that you will have no problem with the commentary.

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  3. Mike Gascoigne

    Mike Gascoigne <img src=/mike.jpg>

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    Soteriology is the study of salvation. If you think I don't understand it, you are suggesting that I am not saved.

    Earlier you were suggesting that I should spend seven or eight years at a "seminary internationally recognized for its academic excellence". Then you said you had posted your discussion of Romans on another thread, but when I asked you where it was you wouldn't tell me. Now you are suggesting that I should read just one commentary. This is a major climbdown, isn't it? No need for seven or eight years at a seminary any more. But you've already built in your dodge clause because I have to read this commentary "carefully and prayerfully", which is just a pious way of saying that I have to read it according to your standards. You have dodged this issue so long, I don't think you are going to give me your answer, however many commentaries I read, because you haven't got an answer. If I read this commentary, you will make some excuse and tell me I have to read another one, and another one, and another one. The goal post will always be moving and I haven't got time to waste, following it around.

    I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'd like to know what to do with my hypothetical friend who has an IQ of 60. He is intelligent enough to understand my question because it's really simple. I'm saying "It's not fair because God messed up the world and then blamed us for it". This question is really serious for my hypothetical friend because it affects his faith and he can't believe until he gets it answered. How do I answer him in a way that he can understand? If I have to do it according to your standards, there is no answer at all. Instead I have to say "Damn you, you dimwit, you'll just have to go to hell".

    I have posted on this subject extensively in a number of different threads.</font>[/QUOTE]I was actually more interested in the reasons why you ceased to be a pastor.

    Mike
     
  4. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    It is not a requirement for most of us to invest several years of our lives in post-doctoral studies in soteriology at the Universities of Cambridge and Oxford in order to have a saving faith in Christ. I am not at all questioning your salvation, but some of the things that I have read in your posts suggest to me that your knowledge of soteriology is inadequate for you and me to discuss intelligently the relationship between the soteriological passages in Genesis and the soteriological passages in Romans. (And no, I am not suggesting that I have myself invested several years of my life in post-doctoral studies in soteriology at the Universities of Cambridge and Oxford).

    I am making an attempt here to be realistic. Certainly reading one commentary on Romans, no matter how excellent that commentary may be, is no substitute for spending seven or eight years at a "seminary internationally recognized for its academic excellence". Nonetheless, the careful and prayerful study of the one commentary that I recommended would answer the questions that you seem to me to be asking.

    No, the commentary is an excellent one, and I am quite confident that if you were to carefully and prayerfully read it, you would have the answers to your questions. You may not agree with the answers, but you would have them and we could then discuss them.

    It is not at all necessary for your hypothetical friend to spend several years of his life in post-doctoral studies in soteriology at the Universities of Cambridge and Oxford in order to be saved. Nor is it necessary that he read even the most simple commentary on Romans. Nor is it necessary for him to know the answers to any of the questions that you have been asking, but simply to trust Jesus to save him.

    Becoming a pastor was a major career change for me, but that new career lasted only about six years. The reasons for this are very complicated and I myself do not have all the answers. I certainly do very much miss the pastoral life.

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  5. Mike Gascoigne

    Mike Gascoigne <img src=/mike.jpg>

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    Now the goal post has moved again. You appear to have withdrawn your offer to answer the question and you are suggesting that I will find it in the commentary itself. If you think this commentary is so good, you can send a free copy to my PO Box, but I'm not spending any money trying to follow your shifting goal post. The address is on my web page:

    www.annomundi.com

    If you have any experience of being a pastor, as you claim, you will know that people have all sorts of questions that need to be answered, before they will commit themselves to Christ and be saved. But you won't do anything to help my hypothetical friend. Instead you dismiss his question as "not necessary for salvation" and he will go away disappointed at your lack of interest. Is this how you treated your congregation when you were a pastor, and should we all be relieved that you are no longer doing that job?

    Mike
     
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