Why do we treat the survivors like they are stupid?

[Benjamin]

Until someone shows me any scripture that indicates that God Almighty would approve of Christians saying helping the citizens of New Orleans somehow UNDOES the words of Christ spoken in Matthew 25, I stand on the view that God's word says the attitude of "they deserve less," is unholy.

Although your presentation is bringing you a lot of heat, I think you have a valid point from Matthew 25 in that you can’t give too much as in we only have one Master (not money) to serve or to answer to. I also think to let one person go hungry or homeless is disgraceful, but I will also say that the opinions of some of the survivors would be better to humbly be thanking God for what they do have and in the opposite way should serve Christ in their actions, diligently taking on their own responsibilities and burdens, and not want of money more than humble thanks. Either way, a greedy rich man or an unthankful sluggard will answer for his own actions. Many of the following scriptures can be read both ways.

(2Th 3:7) For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

(2Th 3:8) Neither did we eat any man's bread for naught; but wrought with labor and travail night and day, that we might not be chargable to any of you:

(2Th 3:9) Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an example unto you to follow us.

(2Th 3:10) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

(2Th 3:11) For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

(2Th 3:12) Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

(2Th 3:13) But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

 

[Bunyon]

There is no other country in the world where a whole city would be evacutated in less than two weeks, and have shelter over there heads, ac and heat, and a 2000 dollar debit in their pocket, their kids back in school etc, etc, etc, and that is just the beginning.

We nee to stopp whinning like spoild brats!

 

[Thankful]

Originally posted by Rachel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TexasSky:
Thankful,

I am speaking of caring for the poor in general at the moment, not necessarily the Katrina disaster. The SBC was the first group into the Mississippi area. To be honest, I haven't heard anything in the news about them being in New Orleans or at the Houston Shelter. They may be there and not making the news though.

It seems to me that individual Christian's help the poor and needy alot, but we don't see the churchs as a group have programs or pantrys or whatever as much. Yes alot of churches do have them but it just seems to me that individuals go about these things on their own the majority of the time. And I think Christianity needs to get more active in helping the poor and needy and widows.
</font>[/QUOTE]Since the subject has apparently changed from helping the survivors of the Katrina disaster to helping the poor and needy and widows, I can only speak for my church and the churches in my area. We have a food pantry and a benevolence committee that gives food to the needy and help pays utility bills for the poor and our highest priority is assisting widows.

Other churches in the area have clothes closets and other ways of helping the needy and the poor.

But the subject of this thread is "Why do we treat the survivors like they are stupid?'

I think that has been explained that organization is needed and that was obvious by the chaos in the superdome. Further when these people are on an active military base, they cannot wander unescorted over the base. This is an obvious security requirement.

From the interviews on the television stations in this area, the evacuees seem to be very content and happy with their living quarters and some plan to stay.

 

[OCC]

FundamentalDan said: "I agree that individual Christians are to help others around them. That is something that I try to do on an individual basis. However, we are also not ever commanded to do so as a government. As a matter of fact, the government does not constitutionally even have a right to give them anything."

I say: I respectfully disagree. Joseph (as prime minister in Egypt) 'helped' his people to have food during a famine. A government that takes tax money from it's citizens is obligated to help said citizens.

Now...I've heard it said by American citizens that all citizens ARE the government and if that's true...the government would ALWAYS be helping it's citizens. If a government doesn't have to do anything...then it doesn't have to butt into people's business in the name of "homeland security" or fight wars in far off lands while struggling to pull off a rescue effort in it's own country.

 

[TexasSky]

Thankful, (And everyone else who this applies to)

I am glad that your church is doing what God instructed.

One reason I am so .. upset... over these kinds of things is that for every church I find that does a lot of work with the poor and homeless, I find three that do nothing or almost nothing.

My own city has one of the largest food banks in the country. When disaster hits, anywhere in the world, our communinity volunteers are scrambled to get to the food bank and help with the processing and packaging and shipping. When Katrina happened and volunteers were needed to help at the shelters, the churches were called.

While I was, on the one hand, impressed by the Christians who did show up, knowing that there is one of the largest Church of Christ Universities in the country here, a Baptist University here, and a church on almost every corner, yet - the majority of the volunteers were Mormon - I was disappointed.

I am glad that Christians are doing what they can as individuals, but I wonder, do the people know you're doing it in Christ's name?

One thing I did notice during all of this. Two churches who did send people went through the standard Red Cross training, they did the things they were told to do, and they worked hard. The only reason I knew they represented Christ though was the fact that I saw them unload from a van from their church at Red Cross Headquarters. However, I knew who the state-owned-university-reps were - they had shirts that said so. I knew who the Mormons were, they had name tags and free copies of "The Book of Mormon." I did know who the Catholics were too. They were handing out cards to their charity center, and inviting people to their church.

As to the subject of this thread. Yes, there needs to be organization, but you can organize without stealing dignity. You can guide without hurting more.

As to the attitudes of some on this board. I'm just ashamed to know you. Until you've been through the horrors these people have been through, you have absolutely NO RIGHT to criticize THEIR attitude. As someone, I think it was Blackbird, pointed out - a lot of these people are suffering from PTSD. That isn't an illness that goes away over night. They've lost ABSOLUTELY everything.

Do you know what the "inprocessing" for the shelters was? Put them on a plane, send them to a destination they didn't even know they were headed to, move them to a bus, take them to a shelter they may or may not have heard of. Herd them to a shower and tell them to strip down. Explain that you are throwing away everything they are wearing or carrying because it is considered contaminated. Show them a pile of used clothes, let them select something and assign them an air mattress or cot on the concrete floor - HOPEFULLY near someone they know.

They had no idea where they would live or how they would earn a living. Many were searching for lost loved ones, some had seen family members or neighbors die. They didn't come with luggage or the box of things you always say you'll save if you are in a disaster. They left behind pets and friends and family. They had suffered near starvation in the wealthiest nation in the world - in their own neighborhood. They'd been forced into living conditions with rapists and pedophiles and violent criminals. They'd been afraid to drink the water, and afraid of dying of thirst.

So - how DARE you people criticize them for "not being grateful enough?"

 

[Bunyon]

I think the fact that the deficit is fixing to be raised by 100 billion or more gives us the right to express our concerns. Our children will be paying for this for the rest of our lives.

I am not complaining about their unthankfulness, so much as I am complaining about the critics of the government. Which is why I said "we need to stop whinning". I think we have an unrealistic attitude. It seems some think that if we did not get the evacuees out of the city in 24 hours and into hotels and houses with all the amenities, we have failed. I think that is a realitivly spoiled attitude. There need ARE being met and no other group of evacuees in the history of the world has been taken care of like these folks will be. I'm talking about things like saying they were near starvation. They had food there, but you can go for several weeks without food. Some people fast for a week at a time routienly. An accusation of starvation is inflamatory and wrong.

 

[bapmom]

I'll remember what you said, TexasSky. Thank you for the reminder.

I think the media is getting in between alot of us and the evacuees. They are painting a picture and emphasizing those who really might be complaining, instead of concentrating on those who are truly grateful, etc.

 

[TexasSky]

"Some people" surviving without food is not "all people" surviving without food.

Some people didn't get food until day 6.

Some people were already dead by day 3.

Maybe you can fast for a week and survive. You probably aren't a newborn child, or a nursing mother, or a diabetic, or an elderly person.

I, for one, would MUCH rather do without myself, than face Christ with the attitude that, I have a right to complain that they are getting help I might eventually have to pay tax dollars to support.

By the way - take an economics class. If these people are NOT helped now - they will eventually end up on the welfare roles and you'll STILL be helping them.

 

[Benjamin]

So - how DARE you people criticize them for "not being grateful enough?"

If you’re directing that to me, there is a reason I bolded some as to make it clear, maybe not clear enough, who it referred to.

 

[Thankful]

TexasSky, since you addressed your post to me and anyone else that it applies to, I certainly take offense to many of the things that you have said.

So you are ashamed to know us. so we dare not criticize people for"not being grateful enough"

I certainly have not said anything about people not being grateful enough and I personally think you have been too critical of the things that people are doing to help these unfortunate people.

Perhaps you didn't mean your post the way it sounds and I will give the benefit of the doubt here, but I would like for you to explain just what you were saying to me (and everyone else it applies to)

 

[dianetavegia]

The people we're helping are so VERY appreciative! Almost all have found jobs and are working long, hard hours as machinists, chefs, welders, heavy equipment operators, etc. Most have housing with almost no furniture. Some only have air mattresses. The homes I've been in have been spotless. The children are well behaved in church and well spoken.

The used clothing we've provided has been accepted with much gratitude. I've offered to drive the ladies to different appointments but they've set up rides through the group transportation offered through Red Cross or our church, not wanting to take advantage of anyone.

Saturday, we delivered a washer and dryer, 3 color t.v.s, a Laura Ashley bed with matching bedding, sofa, love seat, end tables, lamps, 2 kitchen table sets, dishware, dressers, books, blankets and more. That was just ONE days worth of donations! My newest quest is to find a car for Clothil who wants to go to college and make a better life for her and her two sons, ages 15 and 11. Glenn, the 15 year old, is a book worm and he's written me asking me to help him find a job so he can help his 'mama'.

I've been in these homes numerous times now, beginning 24 hours after 52 arrived from N.O. and Mississippi. (The group from Ms. returned home. The group from New Orleans has no homes left.) I've kept in contact by phone and email. I've listened to the testimony of many of our evacuees. I've heard stories of how his tragedy has affected some of their preteens the most.

Certainly, I've seen no instance, locally, of stupidy, ungratefulness or disrespect. I'd be thrilled if the 40 plus from this one family group joined our church.

Diane Tavegia

 

[Ed Edwards]

The BGCO (Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma) has a
trunk and the logistics tail to feed 8,000 people a day.
They deployed to Lafayette, La prior to the disaster,
moved to New Iberia later, and are now in East New Orleans.
They have served some 160,000 meals, enough meals for
one meal for half the total displaced. This is free of
cost to the U.S.Government, the State of Lousiana, and the
city and Parish governments. The Southern Baptists of Oklahoma
maintain this truck and it's logistical tail 24/7/365 as
a ministry to our country.

 

[TexasSky]

Thankful,

The first part of my post, saying that I was thrilled to hear of the work of your church, was addressed to you.

THe rest of the post, saying that people should not make cracks about the survivors being ungrateful were directed at the guilty parties.

I assumed since you never made such remarks, and were reading the thread, you would know which par to the post was meant for you and which was not.

As to who the words of critcism applies to, I urge you to go back and read the thread, and look for the words of people who are criticizing the survivors for being ungrateful. Specifically the people who literally said, "They need to stop whiiiinning." THOSE are the people I'm ashamed of.

 

[Thankful]

Our Union Baptist association sent a truck load of supplies to the Evangeline Baptist association in Louisiana.

I learned tonight that the Union Baptist association sent two 18-wheelers of supplies and one U-haul trailer and $50,000 dollars in cash to the Evangeline Baptist association in Louisiana. These trucks were unloaded in New Iberia, Louisiana. The drivers thought that they were not going to be able to unload the supplies on the day that they arrived, but fortunately, one of the local pastors had a forklift operator's license and unloaded the supplies in a timely manner. It seems that God does provide.

It was pointed out tonight that this pastor has worked as a forklift operator while he was going to Seminary and had kept his license current. The message was that God trains people to fill tasks before needed.

The evacuees in our area are very grateful for the lodging and provisions provided to them. Many churches are providing temporary housing in their church buildings.

Jim Burton, director of volunteer mobilization at the North American Mission Board (SBC) stated that they are now calling the continental United States as "ground zero", as the dispersion of Hurricane Katrina survivors is bringing this disaster to each of our communities.
He is suggesting an adopt a church plan which our association has already implemented.

I really don't see how we are Christians could do more than we are doing. We are providing shelter, food, jobs, counseling, money, and other necessary supplies. Do they know that we are Christians? Yes, I think they do.

 

[Thankful]

TexasSky, I am glad that you explained that the entire post was not meant for me. Yes, I knew that I had not made those statements, but the casual reader might not know and many times people will not take the time to see what a poster really said.

 

[Bunyon]

Texas sky,

If you would get of the war path and go back and read what I said, you would see That I said "we" need to stop whinning, not "they" need to stop whinnig. And later I posted and explained that I was talking about the armchair critics who are criticising the gov and others who ARE helping while "they" are sitting in front of there tv screens. As far as the welfare roles and such, I want the people to be helped, I am just saying that we have a right to complain about the complainers who just want to call the gov inept and stupid. I wonder if you will apologise for grossly misquoting me? As far as having food and such. I know there are victims, but the government did not kill them.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Just from our little town, the churches, firemen, and paramedics have deployed semis loaded to the brim to the survivors. We had several people from our church spend 10 days in New Orleans.

OTOH, I, like many others, have seen people on the news 'whining' about what they lost instead of falling on their knees and thanking God their lives were spared when so many others weren't.

I get tired of hearing it and yes, I am doing my part to help the survivors by trying to locate and reunite families.

This is pulling our nation back together, to a degree. That's what our country is all about. When the chips are down - we are there...

 

[TexasSky]

First: These are the comments that I think should not appear on a Christian board when referencing people in need.

Let's see, unemployment pay, food, shelter, water, 2 grand charge card, free property, extended benefits later (what that means mr. bush is scary to me), 600 a month housing allowance, 5 grand to help find me a job. Uuuuuuuuu where do I sign up to get told what to do and where to go.

Second - Donna, if you are going to talk about me, get it right.

I was not angry at people saying these people needed food, clothing or shelter. I was angry at people saying that was all they need. I was also angry at churches being told they didn't need to give.

As to other rude implications in your note to me - let's make one thing clear. I donate to the food bank every single month. With cash, with food, and with school supplies. So I certainly don't ignore the need for food.

I have helped set up and take down the shelters for the survivors, and helped located homes for them, so I don't ignore the need for the shelter.

I work with the poor though. Contrary to the attitudes of many on this board, many of them are very good Christians, and very hard working people, and they do without things that the average person takes for granted.

There are needs to human beings that go BEYOND food and shelter, and some people who have already given food or helped provide shelter want to do more. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with doing more.

So, stop spreading lies that I'm angry that people think they need food and shelter. THAT need was being met. I was angry at people saying, "No, you shouldn't meet any needs ABOVE that."

 

[blackbird]

Now---here's a bit some of us can chew on---and it goes like this

The following are really the stupid ones---though they are "stupid by stealth"

Those who make a claim with FEMA or Red Cross----but who have not lost anything----you want to know who burns me up????

Buddy---I'd personally HELP any soul from the Gulf Coast and from the Greater New Orleans area who has lost his house, his job, his car, his "whatever"---and the only thing he has left is what is on his back in the form of a shirt, britches, and shoes and a hat!!!

But I wouldn't give you a red cent if you're in line for cash, debit card, voucher or whatever---and your house is still standing and you still have a job----God help your selfishness!!!

 

[donnA]

TS, I was not talking about you, which implies behind your back, but to you.
Immediately after any disaster food, water, and shelter, and some personal supplies are all a person needs. These people were and are being shuffled around tring to find a place for them and must carry all their stuff with them in bags, no boxes, no luggage, nothing but a grocery bag. And you were angry becasue you couldn't send musical instruments, when they needed food and water, baby supplies. Fact is some of those people are going to need shelter and maybe more help for a while as some of them had nothing to go back too. Take care of basic needs first, as long as that is needed, then help in other ways.
You put people down for not doing enough, but you have no idea what anyone is doing.

As to other rude implications in your note to me - let's make one thing clear. I donate to the food bank every single month. With cash, with food, and with school supplies. So I certainly don't ignore the need for food.

I have helped set up and take down the shelters for the survivors, and helped located homes for them, so I don't ignore the need for the shelter.

And who are you comparing yourself too, who hasn't done as much, or as important? Or are you patting yourself on the back?
According to Jesus we are supose to keep these things secret, not tell everyone.