Why Does "Arminian Theology" get A bad name here On BB?

[Winman]

To add a little more, think about this. As mean and violent as Paul was toward believers, the moment Paul encountered Christ he humbled himself. You would probably say anyone would do so, but that is not true. Pharaoh saw 10 supernatural plagues against Egypt and still did not humble himself. It is difficult to imagine you could see Moses call down fire from heaven and not believe, but that is how stubborn and prideful Pharaoh was. Paul saw one vision and immediately humbled himself, so he was not nearly as stubborn or prideful as Pharaoh was.

 

[Iconoclast]

Well then I turn again to Paul who in his pride before conversion actually pridefully killed Christians. So why did God choose to save him?

Where sin abounds grace does much more abound;here is the scriptural testimony of why;

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

17And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

20And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

21But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

22But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[Allan]

Sure thing......Willis...remember all those who are elected were sinners, even as others. The convicting and drawing work of the Spirit of God humbles all christians......God does resist the proud.

I've been gone a while, and don't know much about the thread.. but figured I'd say hello, with this drive by question?

Based on your above quotation, to whom does God give his grace?

Hello again:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

I've been gone a while, and don't know much about the thread.. but figured I'd say hello, with this drive by question?

Based on your above quotation, to whom does God give his grace?

Hello again:thumbs:

Hello Brother,
Had not heard from you in awhile,so I prayed that all is well with you and your family. Figured you were taking a break from the BB.....

Willis asked me this question:
Okay, answer this for me, please? Why doesn't He save the elect, even when they reject Him? He is in total control, absolutely, but He wants us in an humbled state. God resisteth the proud, but giveth Grace to the humble.


[QUOTEIsaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.][/QUOTE]

James indicates that those who draw near to God receive grace;

6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

9Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Like Isaiah in chapter 6 ...if we have a proper biblical view of God,that alone will humble any of us.

perhaps James reflected on psalm 73;

21Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my reins.

22So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

23Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.

24Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.

25Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee.

26My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

27For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.

28But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.

 

[JesusFan]

Sufficient for all, efficient for those who believe in and have faith in Christ.

that is what "4 pointers" like myself would affirm and adhere to BUT

Big difference between myself and non cals would be I DO see that ALL are spiritually dead, as a result of fall of adam, and cannot even come to jesus and get saved apart from the LORD Himself effectually apply Grace towards his elected out ones, who will turn to Christ...

Do NOT hold that ALL can freely choose to accept/reject jesus, as dueto the fall, we ALL would ONLY freely reject Him!

 

[JesusFan]

To borrow your line: :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

the "Whosoever wills" would be those whom God has granted the will to do such though, as the "natural" man would NOT freely chose Christ!

 

[Amy.G]

the "Whosoever wills" would be those whom God has granted the will to do such though, as the "natural" man would NOT freely chose Christ!

Actually the bible says that the natural man does not understand the mind of God, not that he cannot have faith in Christ.

That verse has been so taken out of context it makes me want to scream.

.............there. I feel better.

 

[Skandelon]

Do NOT hold that ALL can freely choose to accept/reject jesus,

Then you give unbelievers a really good excuse for their unbelief on judgement day. Why give them that easy out? Why give them such a perfect defense?

I believe they are much worse than you do. I think they are SOO bad that they rebelled in the face of God's love and provisions. They were given everything they needed but chose to trade in the truth for a lie. They have NO EXCUSE!

 

[mandym]

Actually the bible says that the natural man does not understand the mind of God, not that he cannot have faith in Christ.

That verse has been so taken out of context it makes me want to scream.

.............there. I feel better.

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Skandelon]

God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

...if we have a proper biblical view of God,that alone will humble any of us.

But the scripture doesn't say "God resisteth the proud but giveth grace to some proud people in order that they be humble...God will humble you in the sight of himself, and he shall lift you up too."

It clearly says, "Humble yourselves... and that he gives grace to those who are humble

 

[JesusFan]

Then you give unbelievers a really good excuse for their unbelief on judgement day. Why give them that easy out? Why give them such a perfect defense?

NONE are without excuse though before a Holy and perfect God....

The ONLY 2 to blame on their eternal seperation from God would be Adam, who failed miserably as our head before God, when he failed the testing, we ALL failed in and through him, and ourselves, as we naturally chose to reject jesus, and are sinners who freely have chosen to sin against God!

I believe they are much worse than you do. I think they are SOO bad that they rebelled in the face of God's love and provisions. They were given everything they needed but chose to trade in the truth for a lie. They have NO EXCUSE!

Until the Lord redeems and saves us, ALL of us will keep on freely rejecting the Lord, so NONE are without excuse!

 

[Skandelon]

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

HOW do you believe these "things" are spiritually discerned?

Keep in mind that the 'brethren' in the church at Corinth couldn't accept them either, so how do you think God spiritually discerned these 'things' to these believers in Corinth? Couldn't that be why Paul was writing to them under the inspiration (discernment) of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Amy.G]

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Of course, but nowhere in scripture does it say that the natural man cannot believe the gospel. Only when he believes the gospel is he able to comprehend scripture and the deep things of God. But God did not block the gospel from natural man, or else NONE of us would be saved.

 

[mandym]

Of course, but nowhere in scripture does it say that the natural man cannot believe the gospel. Only when he believes the gospel is he able to comprehend scripture and the deep things of God. But God did not block the gospel from natural man, or else NONE of us would be saved.

I agree:thumbs:

 

[JesusFan]

HOW do you believe these "things" are spiritually discerned?

Keep in mind that the 'brethren' in the church at Corinth couldn't accept them either, so how do you think God spiritually discerned these 'things' to these believers in Corinth? Couldn't that be why Paul was writing to them under the inspiration (discernment) of the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit ministry of Illumination would grant a saved person means to read/hear/study with understanding in the biblical fashion things of God, while the natural person being dead in their spirit would NOT be able to perceive those things....

be like going to hear Mozart played by musicians, yet be totally tone deaf and unable to "get into" the music!